Add-Ons 1-5

[skubacb]

I paid $150 for add-ons 1-5. No where on the G4 page, at least that I can find, does it state that you threw that money away.

G3 and G3.5 both recognized the aircraft in the add-on packs. So how is Knife Edge going to support these add-ons with G4 users???????

[Kmot]

We are all waiting for the same answer to the same question. Be patient, time will tell.

[opjose]

No where has it been stated that the add-ons will or would work with G4.

Frankly they are so old and look so bad compared to G3/G4 planes, that they should abandon them altogether and maybe look towards a new add-on's pack containing all of the planes.

I'm sure we'll be charged for them though, which is justifiable.

[Blade Scraper]

No where has it been stated that the add-ons will or would work with G4.

This guy stated that it will not work with G4 very clearly,now thats a buisness man! :rolleyes: Add ons (http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=342295)

[josh0987]

Posting stuff from other threads? ( not attacking anyone this time! :mad: )

[tsteege]

No where has it been stated that the add-ons will or would work with G4.

Frankly they are so old and look so bad compared to G3/G4 planes, that they should abandon them altogether and maybe look towards a new add-on's pack containing all of the planes.

I'm sure we'll be charged for them though, which is justifiable.


Sorry Opjose, but no one will ever convince me that charging me for something twice is justifible.

Just my $.02

TS

[opjose]

Sorry Opjose, but no one will ever convince me that charging me for something twice is justifible.

Just my $.02

TS

Since the add-ons were written for G2, having support for them in G3 was a very nice thing to do...

Now with G4 KE has no obligation to make the older product compatible with the new.


No one is being "ripped off" as they stated that the add-ons would not work.


You could have made the choice before purchasing G4.



However again KE has stepped up and said that they are working on a solution.


My hope is that they DO NOT do what you are hoping for... e.g. a compatibility patch.


I'd rather be charged a reasonable price for a CD that contains all of the older models redone for G4....


However this in turn requires more work as they would have to be created from scratch again. In turn this means that we will be charged for this.

I would like all of those old planes to start looking as good as the newer ones... not a rehash of G2's 3D objects.


( Hint: KE how about a $40.00 disk containing ALL of those older planes redone for G4? Please? Put Nemo_UK on this???? )

[jeffpn]

Sorry Opjose, but no one will ever convince me that charging me for something twice is justifible.

Just my $.02

TS
Apparantly you've never had more than 1 car in your life.\time.

[Zelatio]

Apparantly you've never had more than 1 car in your life.\time.

You've paid for the same car twice? That's funny. No one I have ever known has done that.

So basically let me try and put this into words or everyone.

Expecting G2 addons to work in G4 is like expecting your floppy disk(G2 Addons) to be able to be played in a DVD(G4) drive. Somehow, KE magically got those floppy disks(G2 Addons) to work in a CD player(G3), but they can't get them to play in a DVD(G4) drive. Maybe they can work their magic and get them to work in that DVD drive, but chances are slim. And that is alright with me.

[pplace]

Get this.....I had a gallon of milk that I didn't quite finish and it went past the suggested expiration date. I went to the store where I bought it and asked them to replace it. They said I had to purchase a new one!!! (What gives?!)haha

That's how life is.....in the history of your life. $150 spent on something (5 add ons) is very minuscule. You've had your fun with it....it served it's original purpose and you were happy with it.

[Zelatio]

Get this.....I had a gallon of milk that I didn't quite finish and it went past the suggested experation date. I went to the store where I bought it and asked them to replace it. They said I had to purchase a new one!!! (What gives?!)


Uh-Oh pplace! Sounds like you expected more than you should have when purchasing that milk!

[pplace]

Yup I'll never buy milk from them again....in fact I'm telling everyone not to buy from them now!

[Johndou]

RealFlight made a business decision by rushing G4 to the market prior to the Christmas rush. They didn’t have the “fix” for the Add-ons. They’ve stated that it’s something that they’re working on so obviously they consider it a viable part of G4 - or at least that’s what the statement indicates to me. This isn’t the auto industry ...

Less then a month after releasing a new upgrading for G3.5 - Great Planes (KnifeEdge Software aka RealFlight) announced the release of G4. They claimed at the time that the physics weren’t changed. We now know, from user statements, that either that was a mis-statement or they have numerous bugs that will need to be fixed.

They also stated that because of the way that “things worked” in G4, that none of the previously released “Add-Ons” would work with G4. None of the user created planes uploaded to the KnifeEdge site would work either. That’s a considerable hit to a large population of G3.5 users in the loss of planes, heli’s, color schemes and flying fields .

There was no advanced notification that anything was even being considered from Great Planes (aka RealFlight), up to the day of G4's introduction to the public. The claim was because they didn’t want their competition to be aware. What about the consideration for their customers? Why do they have to keep things secret from their competitors anyway?

The controller was changed - even though the claim from Great Planes and RealFlight was that the one being used for G3 was better then anything else being offered. Although numerous customers complained and had to return their controllers for repair. But the change in controller has caused a lot of heli people to turn away from G4.

What we have seen is Great Planes’ aka RealFlight’s marketing plan. In my opinion they have shown their need to meet schedule at any cost, their lack of proper testing of their software prior to release and a significant disregard for there current customers.

This country is heading for a recession. Gas prices continue to soar and when that happens “hobbies” are one of the first to be cut back as belts are tightened. The market plan to release a “less the perfect” product - leaving off many previously released “add-on” products prior to the upcoming Christmas season may cause several people to wait and cause a significant lack of sales ... time will tell. But, this could be a large catastrophe for Great Planes and KnifeEdge. It’s unfortunate because I think they had a great product with G3.5.

[BKM72]

OK..........listen.

You go out and buy a Corvette, and realize it can perform better with a GM supercharger.
You buy/install the supercharger.

Then.....they come out with the Z06. but now the Supercharger is incompatable.

Do you go after GM because the S/C wont work on the new Z06?

NO....do you know why?
Cause its a different engine.!!!

Put the Add-ons on ebay and be done with it.

It kills me how people dont understand this concept.!!

(maybe you'd be happier if G4 didnt exist?)
:rolleyes:

[pplace]

This isn’t the auto industry ...

Well....to play off that a bit, because I believe a business is a business and a product is a product.

Consider G3.5 a Ford Mustang and G4 a Ford Mustang GT

You have the option to purchase whichever one suites your needs. (For new customers) This means some will be happy buying and using a base model Mustang. aka: G3.5 (as it is still a viable product and sim) it is cheaper and still allows the use of the old G2 add ons. Like the base Mustang you get the looks and feel with an affordable price tag (small V6 engine, no frills trim and savings on gas and insurance).....and it'll get you from point A - point B perfectly. Just like G3.5 will teach you to fly R/C without a doubt.

On the other hand some will want all the gadgets and gizmo's of the Mustang GT. aka: G4 They will pay more for it and be happy using all the great features (even if they lose the add ons) Much like buying the GT with a big V8 engine, fancy trim.....with a hit to the gas mileage and the insurance bill!ha (much like the hit you might need to upgrade your computer or your graphics card) And this will also teach you to fly R/C without a doubt.

Now for the previous / current customers:

I had an '01 Mustang GT and was very happy with it. When Ford announced the "redesign" of the Mustang for '05 I ordered one. Just so I could have the latest greatest thing. There are many things I actually miss about the older car I had.......but the new features / looks outweigh what I miss. I didn't expect my dealer to give me any great deals or incorporate the features and items I miss......it wasn't his obligation that I wanted to upgrade to the latest greatest they had to offer. (You don't need to "trade in" your G3.5 for G4 if you don't want too!)

So with G3.5 (I was very happy with it....but I wanted to stay on the leading edge of things) It's my nature......so I was willing to give up the add ons.....knowing KE will offer other / better additions in the future.

Life is a game of "Give and Take"

None of the user created planes uploaded to the KnifeEdge site would work either. That’s a considerable hit to a large population of G3.5 users in the loss of planes, heli’s, color schemes and flying fields .

They never mentioned this once? As I recall they always stated the custom models would work with G4 (if you can point me directly to a statement correcting me) then I'll take back my words. But it just seems like you were trying to "pile" bad things on to make things look worse?

[BKM72]

This country is heading for a recession. Gas prices continue to soar and when that happens “hobbies” are one of the first to be cut back as belts are tightened. The market plan to release a “less the perfect” product - leaving off many previously released “add-on” products prior to the upcoming Christmas season may cause several people to wait and cause a significant lack of sales ... time will tell. But, this could be a large catastrophe for Great Planes and KnifeEdge. It’s unfortunate because I think they had a great product with G3.5.


Ok.....so you took economics in college.......So did I.

You cant compare necessities to luxury items. Those who want it....will buy it.

Groceries, clothes, ....everyday consumables will suffer. Substitutes will sell like crazy. People will shift to cheaper store brands. BUT....desireables will never fail.

If they want it....they find a way to get it.....PERIOD. (i.e., save)
95% of our population is pay check to pay check anyway.

Most consumers cant afford top of the line TV's......but guess what....they buy them.

The ONLY way that KE suffers....is if they miss their price point (like SONY did with the PS3). I dont feel KE has missed the price point.!!!

I think your complaining to the wrong group here.!!!

Final word: If you cant justify it....dont do it.

[Johndou]

Designing and importing custom aircraft for RealFlight G4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many of you create and share models for RealFlight G3.5 and exchange them on our swap pages.

We've been asked a lot of questions about creating models for RealFlight G4.

We're working on improving our documentation for custom aircraft designers, and we'll be providing you with detailed information about changes specific to G4 in the coming weeks.

We will also be rolling out some changes to the swap pages, to improve usability, address issues raised by the community, and to provide support for G4. Right now the swap pages won't accept G4 files (they have a new ".RFX" file extension instead of ".G3X"). We ask that you swap files in the Designer's Corner forum for the time being.

I've asked Dave Lauck, a staff artist, to prepare new documentation and answer questions in the Designer's Corner forum. He will need to return to production work soon so get your questions in now. It is my hope that he will be valuable in assisting the community as they transition to the new version.

There are two issues that you need to be aware of if you are planning to import your old G3.5 custom aircraft into your new installation of G4.

1. When you import an aircraft you may find that some switches are reversed.
2. Attempting to multi-import a large number of files may produce an error.

Unfortunately we discovered these issues too late to fix them before the first run of disks. We are working on a patch to address both issues and will have an update shortly.

Jim

Do you consider importing a model with known errors as not a problem? I always thought that not working meant not working properly ... at least where software is concerned. Or do you consider that if they import, it's not an issue?

[Johndou]

Ok.....so you took economics in college.......So did I.

You cant compare necessities to luxury items. Those who want it....will buy it.

Groceries, clothes, new cars, ....everyday consumables will suffer. People will shift to cheaper store brands. BUT....desireables will never fail.

If they want it....they find a way to get it.....PERIOD. (i.e., save)
95% of our population is pay check to pay check anyway.

Most consumers cant afford top of the lie TV's......but guess what....they buy them.

The ONLY way that KE suffers....is if they miss their price point (like SONY did with the PS3). I dont feel KE has missed the price point.!!!

I think your complaining to the wrong group here.!!!

Final word: If you cant justify it....dont do it.

Just what is it that you'd like me to justify? I said that "...time will tell..." and "...this could ..." :confused:

[r1derbike]

My God! Adds-On 1-5 presently won't work on G4! Oh nnnooo!

Doomsday prophets, unite! Recession! Fuel price debauchery! Extreme cuts-back on HOBBY expenditures? Oh, say it isn't so...please, say it isn't soooo! :D

Adds-on are from a different era, and they look like it. I also have 1-5, and guess what? THEY STILL WORK ON G3.5! Yeah! Imagine that! Old product that KE graciously made compatible with G3x, STILL works on it! :rolleyes:

Even if Adds-On 1-5 are never imported into the G4 engine, GP's merchandise allowance should take the "sting" out of those who sing with bellicose bravado, that they've been "stung". :)

Use the allowance toward Expansion Packs 1-4! ;)

Some people would gripe, if they were hung with a new rope... :D

Charles

[pplace]

Do you consider importing a model with known errors as not a problem? I always thought that not working meant not working properly ... at least where software is concerned. Or do you consider that if they import, it's not an issue?

Going to have to do better than that.

I don't want to get off topic with this thread (for the sake of the original poster) but I did mention if you found a statement stating that "None of the user created planes uploaded to the KnifeEdge site would work either" your exact words from above.

I'm sorry but I've imported several of my later models along with a couple others that I liked in G3.5. The only situation I've had with a couple of them was a "reversed" dual rate switch. They imported, flew the same (so close to not notice a difference) just a couple clicks of the mouse to "switch" the dual rates back to correct. So I would consider that a "working model" different than the "NO user created planes working" (which I take as....not importing at all, won't take off, flies like #$#$, etc.)

So keep searching for the statement that will correct me. And I'll eat my words.

[BKM72]

Uh oH....new release.!!

.35

Read the notes....(err....Im late on this one......sorry)

[opjose]

They didn’t have the “fix” for the Add-ons. They’ve stated that it’s something that they’re working on so obviously they consider it a viable part of G4 - or at least that’s what the statement indicates to me.


So if they are doing us a favor by provind a fix for the add-ons, then that is only because this was their intent from the beginning?

That doesn't make sense. Could it be the other way around, that maybe they never meant to but tried as an afterthought or due to perceived pressure by the likes of us?


Less then a month after releasing a new upgrading for G3.5 - Great Planes (KnifeEdge Software aka RealFlight) announced the release of G4.


Ah so by the same logic, they should have STOPPED upgrading G3.5 for a longer amount of time to appease people, right?


They claimed at the time that the physics weren’t changed. We now know, from user statements, that either that was a mis-statement or they have numerous bugs that will need to be fixed.


Or it could be neither...

e.g. that their statement was true, that they did not change the coding for the physics at all, but something changed the end result that maybe they did not forsee.

What you've missed, even with my statements about the physics, is that there is only one thing making the physics seem different, and that's the control surface authority amount, and then ONLY at high deflections/throws.

Many of my existing variants show - NO - changes, notably those that have control surface deflections of less than say 25 degrees.


They also stated that because of the way that “things worked” in G4, that none of the previously released “Add-Ons” would work with G4.


And had they not stated this, the doom and gloomers would be complaining twice as loud.

Would you have preferred that they NOT make this statement and that we find this out on our own?




None of the user created planes uploaded to the KnifeEdge site would work either. That’s a considerable hit to a large population of G3.5 users in the loss of planes, heli’s, color schemes and flying fields .


Really?

Where did you get this information.

Obviously you don't have G4 yet...

My "User created planes" work just fine thank you.



There was no advanced notification that anything was even being considered from Great Planes (aka RealFlight), up to the day of G4's introduction to the public. The claim was because they didn’t want their competition to be aware. What about the consideration for their customers? Why do they have to keep things secret from their competitors anyway?


There were hints about G4 for quite a while around here.

We had been pressing them for info about G4 for over a year.


The controller was changed - even though the claim from Great Planes and RealFlight was that the one being used for G3 was better then anything else being offered. Although numerous customers complained and had to return their controllers for repair. But the change in controller has caused a lot of heli people to turn away from G4.


The above statements contain several assertions put together end to end to make it seem like one related logical train of thought... leading to a implied conclusion, but it's not..

- Yes the controller was changed.
- G3's marketing indeed said that it was a "good" controller, indeed I've never had any problems with it.
- It appears that later batches were the cause of most of the complaints.
- Someone must have listened to those complaints because they came out with a new changed controller.
- They indeed came out with a better controller with more features. e.g. "Improved".
- They did move a few things around. Big deal.
- A few voiciferous heli people picked up on this to complain.
- The more enterprising modified their own controller. ( you got to admire them.. )
- Your train of logic is an attempt to imply that people are turning AWAY from G4 because of changes.
- There is no indication that this is true, quite the opposite. Tower keeps selling out as does my LHS.


What we have seen is Great Planes’ aka RealFlight’s marketing plan. In my opinion they have shown their need to meet schedule at any cost, their lack of proper testing of their software prior to release and a significant disregard for there current customers.


And now you assert more conclusions based upon the above...

You assume and imply:

- This was all done to meet a schedule
- There was a lack of prior testing
- They disregard the customer

Yet:

- They adjusted the controller at our behest.
- The added water effects at our behest.
- They stated that they are working on a solution to the add-ons, even though they don't have to.
- You are not privy to anything related to their marketing or schedule.
- You were not involved in G4 beta testing.
- You don't work for KE to know if any of your speculation has any basis of truth.




This country is heading for a recession. Gas prices continue to soar and when that happens “hobbies” are one of the first to be cut back as belts are tightened.



Whether true or not, that's a bit irrelevant. KE has no crystal ball.

If they did, they would be better off investing in things that do well in a down market instead of dealing with those pesky customers...




The market plan to release a “less the perfect” product


Please cite the page in the market plan where this may be found.

- I missed that memo! -



- leaving off many previously released “add-on” products


I see no products left off?

They announced and released G4.

Did they leave out G4?


prior to the upcoming Christmas season may cause several people to wait and cause a significant lack of sales ... time will tell.


Where are your sales figures?

Tower seems to keep running out of G4 stock very quickly so do my local LHS's who no longer carry FS-One.


But, this could be a large catastrophe for Great Planes and KnifeEdge.


This is true of anything sold by any company. Lack of sales will kill any sales enterprise.

But simple because that is true, does it mean that a specific organization is about to go belly up.


It’s unfortunate because I think they had a great product with G3.5.

Do you? Almost EVERY single post you put up here is quite negative.

Humor me and post a few postive things so I can not want to slit my wrists after reading so much doom and gloom.

Heck let ME be negative every once and a while! :D :D :D

[skubacb]

Point is that if they stated that the add-ons would not work, then you had a choice. Since they worked with 3.5, unless stated otherwise they should work with v4.

71 aircraft is far too many to pay for a second time. Should we pay for Expansion packs 1-4 a second time?

Yes, I think that the addon packs should work. I don't care if they have all of the enhancements of v4 but they should work.

We paid $200 for v4 and another $120 for the four Expansion packs for a total of $320. Plus add-ons 1-5 and the total is $470. I think that is more than enough money to pay to have the add-ons work with the latest version of the simulation.

It would also set a very poor precident if the extras we buy do not work when we upgrade the simulator. If they do this I will take a very hard look at other simulators.

I do hope they are working on the situation.

[opjose]

Point is that if they stated that the add-ons would not work, then you had a choice.


Which they indeed stated, that they would NOT work... they were up front about this.


Since they worked with 3.5, unless stated otherwise they should work with v4.


An erronous sequitor on your part.


71 aircraft is far too many to pay for a second time. Should we pay for Expansion packs 1-4 a second time?


Sure why not?

Oh, you don't want to drop a dime on them...

Well I don't either... I don't want to spend a nickle on the EXISTING add-ons... nor do I WANT them in G4...

Those aircraft were made for G2 and look pretty ugly in G3.5.

Now if they re-do them all... I'll spring $40.00. Most people would for far better planes.

And they'd make a bundle on a cheaper "add-ons" package for those who do not have them...

Imagine that you didn't own any of the add-ons and they offered them all, upgraded, on a single CD for say $40.00...

Tower would already have your order by now.



Yes, I think that the addon packs should work. I don't care if they have all of the enhancements of v4 but they should work.


You'd LIKE them to work.

That's different.


We paid $200 for v4 and another $120 for the four Expansion packs for a total of $320. Plus add-ons 1-5 and the total is $470. I think that is more than enough money to pay to have the add-ons work with the latest version of the simulation.


You overpaid for G4 then. I paid $160.00 and will be getting my rebate/credit.

How about you?

I don't think you actually paid $470.00 for G4 add-ons pack 1-5, because they never existed.



It would also set a very poor precident if the extras we buy do not work when we upgrade the simulator. If they do this I will take a very hard look at other simulators.


Please do.

The others do likewise.

e.g. AFD's planes don't work in AFDP, and have to be redone.


I do hope they are working on the situation.

They say they are, KE usually comes through when they make such statements.

Frankly I hope they DO NOT, and instead come out with a cheaper CD with all of the planes upgraded for G4/G3.

[Johndou]

So if they are doing us a favor by provind a fix for the add-ons, then that is only because this was their intent from the beginning?[

That doesn't make sense. Could it be the other way around, that maybe they never meant to but tried as an afterthought or due to perceived pressure by the likes of us?

Yes, it was their intent from the very beginning - I'm sorry that you weren't able to understand that. Perhaps if you'd been able to read and comprehend Jim's original release of G4 statement you'd understand that ... but then there seems to be a lot that you have trouble understanding ...


Ah so by the same logic, they should have STOPPED upgrading G3.5 for a longer amount of time to appease people, right?

Wow, there's a jump in logic that I didn't see coming ... :rolleyes:



Or it could be neither...

e.g. that their statement was true, that they did not change the coding for the physics at all, but something changed the end result that maybe they did not forsee.

What you've missed, even with my statements about the physics, is that there is only one thing making the physics seem different, and that's the control surface authority amount, and then ONLY at high deflections/throws.

Many of my existing variants show - NO - changes, notably those that have control surface deflections of less than say 25 degrees.

So, now your claim is that the physics haven't changed? You're the one who stated that physics had indeed changed, now you're trying to say that it hasn't? Talking out of both sides of you mouth at once? It's like you want everyone to believe that you're the only one with all of the right answers and if someone points out that your wrong - you'll just change your answer. I have to tell you op it makes you look like either a liar or a real idiot.

And had they not stated this, the doom and gloomers would be complaining twice as loud.

Would you have preferred that they NOT make this statement and that we find this out on our own?


I've already explained that - before you even posted this. Did't read it? Or is that another one that you just didn't comprehend?


Really?

Where did you get this information.

Obviously you don't have G4 yet...

My "User created planes" work just fine thank you.

I'm glad to hear it. Maybe KE would like to know that because they seem to feel otherwise.


There were hints about G4 for quite a while around here.

We had been pressing them for info about G4 for over a year.

Really, show me. Point to the thread where KE said that they were contemplating a G4 release.


The above statements contain several assertions put together end to end to make it seem like one related logical train of thought... leading to a implied conclusion, but it's not..

You just love taking things out of context to bolster your position ... the statements were and are to be taken to their logical conclusion. If you'd like to take them out of context and make unrealistic assumptions ...

- Yes the controller was changed.
- G3's marketing indeed said that it was a "good" controller, indeed I've never had any problems with it.
- It appears that later batches were the cause of most of the complaints.
- Someone must have listened to those complaints because they came out with a new changed controller.
- They indeed came out with a better controller with more features. e.g. "Improved".
- They did move a few things around. Big deal.
- A few voiciferous heli people picked up on this to complain.
- The more enterprising modified their own controller. ( you got to admire them.. )
- Your train of logic is an attempt to imply that people are turning AWAY from G4 because of changes.

Thank you for bolstering my position. People, a large percentage - more people that own G3.5 - are simply keeping G3.5 and turning away from G4 because of the reasons that you've just stated - and many more.



And now you assert more conclusions based upon the above...

You assume and imply:

- This was all done to meet a schedule
- There was a lack of prior testing
- They disregard the customer

Yet:

- They adjusted the controller at our behest.
- The added water effects at our behest.
- They stated that they are working on a solution to the add-ons, even though they don't have to.
- You are not privy to anything related to their marketing or schedule.
- You were not involved in G4 beta testing.
- You don't work for KE to know if any of your speculation has any basis of truth.

I'll give you the added water - but are you seriously asking me to believe that KE had nothing to do with beta testing a new release or marketing schedules!!??? BS!! Even Jim Bourke isn't that stupid. I'll ignore the "you were not ..." statements because that's got to be some of the dumbest comments If read from you.



Whether true or not, that's a bit irrelevant. KE has no crystal ball.

If they did, they would be better off investing in things that do well in a down market instead of dealing with those pesky customers...

They don't deal with the costumers - you do. This is a user helping user forum. All of the support is taken care of by RealFlight. Which leads me to wonder why these forums even exist anymore?




Please cite the page in the market plan where this may be found.

- I missed that memo! -

Refer to the memo from Great Planes - dated 07/15/2007 - page 12 - subsection 4 - para. 2 ;)


I see no products left off?

They announced and released G4.

Did they leave out G4?

KE said that they were working on incorporating the Add-ons ... you're telling me that wasn't planned? That KE - Jim Bourke - made that statement when G4 was released and it wasn't planned?


Where are your sales figures?

Tower seems to keep running out of G4 stock very quickly so do my local LHS's who no longer carry FS-One.


This is true of anything sold by any company. Lack of sales will kill any sales enterprise.

But simple because that is true, does it mean that a specific organization is about to go belly up.

I'm sorry, what's your point? Speculation is speculation. If you want sales figures call RealFlight.


Do you? Almost EVERY single post you put up here is quite negative.

Humor me and post a few postive things so I can not want to slit my wrists after reading so much doom and gloom.

Heck let ME be negative every once and a while! :D :D :D

You're a lot more negative then you're giving yourself credit for ... telling people that the physics have changed - that even a massive quad core machine can't render full graphics - that add-ons are worthless - that G4 has problems ... give yourself credit where credit is due. :D

[josh0987]

Now if they re-do them all... I'll spring $40.00. Most people would for far better planes.That sounds like a plan to me! :D I'm with Opjose on this one

[josh0987]

have to tell you op it makes you look like either a liar or a real idiot.Seems like... your the "idiot" :rolleyes:

"Mess with the best you fall like the rest" - Leepaintball ex - gamer.

[Kmot]

Personally, I do not think the planes in Add-ons 1-5 are horrible. I rather like them. And if I could use them in G4 I would be happy. :)

Opjose has money to burn and would gladly pay $40 to get them into G4. :p

I would prefer to have a 'patch' that brings them into G4. :cool:

[pplace]

I do not think the planes in Add-ons 1-5 are horrible

Correct I agree they aren't horrible....but they honestly aren't up to the quality of the included models in G4 or the expansion packs. The planes would be okay to "get by with" but it would be much better if they were to update the add on aircrafts and re-release them like Opj suggested. Most of the user created models are far superior to the add on planes of G2.

So, now your claim is that the physics haven't changed? You're the one who stated that physics had indeed changed, now you're trying to say that it hasn't? Talking out of both sides of you mouth at once? It's like you want everyone to believe that you're the only one with all of the right answers and if someone points out that your wrong - you'll just change your answer. I have to tell you op it makes you look like either a liar or a real idiot.

He didn't go back on his statement of the physics. He had always stated from the start that there only appeared to be changes with models with a large surface throw.....and he has been consistent with stating that. And I agree with it also. I haven't noticed much (if any) of a change with the models I created. Which are warbirds with "normal to smaller" throws on the surfaces. If I created 3D planes with large throws I would probably have to go back and adjust the physics. But my planes are all fine.

[jeffpn]

You've paid for the same car twice? That's funny. No one I have ever known has done that.
Huh? I mean you have a car, the new model comes out, you buy that one. Any options you had in the old one, you'll have to buy again for the new one. You can't transfer the air conditioning, for example. AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY G4!!!

[Kmot]

Most of the user created models are far superior to the add on planes of G2.
Agree 100%

they honestly aren't up to the quality of the included models in G4 or the expansion packs.

Yes, agree there too.

Well, to be honest I doubt KE will use its time and resources to re-hash old plane models but more than likely will be using its time and resources to make new models and additions.

So I think it is unrealistic to expect them to re-do them even for a retail CD at $40 or whatever price.

But if they could spend a few hours just making a patch to bring the same old tired, worn out, crappy Add-ons planes into G4 then that would probably satisfy most users and they could also move on and just keep making newer and mo' betta' stuff. :cool:

[r1derbike]

All this cuttin' and pastin' quotes/rebuttals is makin' me dizzy!

I'm goin' flyin'...with G4, thank you very much! :D

Charles

[josh0987]

All this cuttin' and pastin' quotes/rebuttals is makin' me dizzy!

I'm goin' flyin'...with G4, thank you very much! :D

CharlesWOOO I think I'm gonna fly too! :D

[pilot07]

Srry if this wa already said.... ... i didnt want to read the whole thread.....



If U want the plane that bad make it yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[skubacb]

opjose: None of the advertising said that the addons would not work. Do you work for Knife Edge or do you have so much money you love to throw it away? Either way your wild jumping about in behalf of Knife Edge could use some better reasoning. I find it quite ridiculous when someone gets on a forum and tells everyone on it how blessed we are to be able to send more and more money to the company of their choice. The total price of about $500 for all the addons, expansion packs, and G4 should buy us the portability of the extras.

No, opjose. When I say should I mean should. Do not try to put words into my mouth by changing it to, I want. You obviously have not worked or written computer code. I have for 35 years, plus.

The car thing. Gee guys apples and oranges. If the accessories for the car did not work then you are saying that expansion packs 1-4 should NOT work also. Why don't you throw all your extras away and go buy all new stuff for G4.

As far as the addon planes not being as nice, so be it. They look the way we bought them. I do not expect Knife Edge to upgrade or enhance them. However, they should work in the simulation. I would be more than happy to send them the disks, pay a fee and get upgraded planes for G4.

[cfossa]

Hey Guys,

It sure would be nice if KE added a patch that supported AO 1-5 ... if nothing else than to end this debate ;)

Seriously though, the fact that they have backward compatability for G3.5 expansions is a good deal. If they build in backward compatability for the G2 add-ons that will be awesome.

The arguments about KE paying you back for AOs is bunk. Anyone who bought G3.5 and AOs still has what they payed for ... and it still works. If you want to fly the planes, fire up G3.5 and have at it!

Let me see ...

My Age of Empires expansions don't work with AOE II
My daughter's Sims expansions don't work with SIms 2
My Civilization III expansions don't work with Civilization IV


Now that I think about it, I'm pretty happy that my old G2 add-ons work with G3.5, and that my G3.5 expansions will work wtih G4. :eek:

Happy Landings!

Carl

[josh0987]

You know everyone that has complained has said that their computer prorgammers...
Well most of them that is.. KNIFEEDGE DOES NOT HAVE TO MAKE THE ADD ONS COMPATIBLE! BESIDES THEY ARE FOR REALFLIGHT G2 ITS G4 NOW NOT G2. Stop with the ungratefulness, please.

[HX3D014]

opjose: None of the advertising said that the addons would not work. Do you work for Knife Edge or do you have so much money you love to throw it away? Either way your wild jumping about in behalf of Knife Edge could use some better reasoning. I find it quite ridiculous when someone gets on a forum and tells everyone on it how blessed we are to be able to send more and more money to the company of their choice. The total price of about $500 for all the addons, expansion packs, and G4 should buy us the portability of the extras.

No, opjose. When I say should I mean should. Do not try to put words into my mouth by changing it to, I want. You obviously have not worked or written computer code. I have for 35 years, plus.

The car thing. Gee guys apples and oranges. If the accessories for the car did not work then you are saying that expansion packs 1-4 should NOT work also. Why don't you throw all your extras away and go buy all new stuff for G4.

As far as the addon planes not being as nice, so be it. They look the way we bought them. I do not expect Knife Edge to upgrade or enhance them. However, they should work in the simulation. I would be more than happy to send them the disks, pay a fee and get upgraded planes for G4.
You think he is the only one?

Some times (rarely) OP gets it a little wrong (Not bloody easy dealing with Greedy guts) but the thing is , the rest of us who Are able to understand the original post by Jim and the subsequent posts by him , to reassure us that KE is working on it, are just waiting patiently, We also see no need to enter into illogical debate over silly nonsense. <I only chime in to re assure you that OP is not alone>

Here it is.

I want the Add-Ons to work forever (Yes, I want them to work with G5 and G6 and G7 and so on and so on)

WANT.

I don't need it to. because if I want to fly those Planes then I will launch G3.

Different Scenario!
You have G4 only , and want the G2 add ons to work with it, then it is some thing you will need to investigate before you purchase it.

[HX3D014]

I would be more than happy to send them the disks, pay a fee and get upgraded planes for G4.
Count me in on that one ;)

PS here is back up for the some times OP gets it wrong. (No Bigie)
From the Products link above. click it. then click on Add ons 3 (I chose 3 because the first two were before G2 came out and could not refer to Real Flight anything else than what was available at the time.

here is a copy of the * note for the compatibility of Helicopters.
*Please note: Raptor helicopter simulations are compatible only with RealFlight Deluxe or Generation 2 software, and are not available for use with RealFlight Classic.

So the thing is. Add ons one and Two were written for Realflight (That is the RealFlight pre G2) and then Add Ons three to five were written for both, but not the classic.

Looking at the Evolution chain. it appears to be
RealFlight (Later called Classic ?)
RealFlight Deluxe
RealFlight G2
RealFlight G3
RealFlight G3.5
RealFlight G4

[flip3d]

So the thing is. Add ons one and Two were written for Realflight (That is the RealFlight pre G2) and then Add Ons three to five were written for both, but not the classic.

You tell 'em Bryce. I have every add on, expansion pack, etc. from the beginning of G2. If I never use the old discs again I would NOT feel short changed. This program has been thoroughly enjoyed and I look forward to moving on.

[opjose]

... but then there seems to be a lot that you have trouble understanding ...


Especially when it pertains to you taking things back out of context yet again!

Jim's announcement as to them "working" on it does and did not imply ( as you are doing ) that this was their intent from the beginning, rather that they hit a snag in the attempts to do so when they first looked to this.

If it were their intent to release with support for the G2 planes, then they would have done so.

Simple.



Wow, there's a jump in logic that I didn't see coming ... :rolleyes:



I guess that's because you're teaching me how, maybe?

Yet that conclusion is exactly what you and a few others are directly espousing.

e.g. if KE had "waited" you would be happier... how silly....

and that's what you effectively said.




Talking out of both sides of you mouth at once? It's like you want everyone to believe that you're the only one with all of the right answers and if someone points out that your wrong - you'll just change your answer. I have to tell you op it makes you look like either a liar or a real idiot.



Or it makes you appear to only accept your own answers.

I've already explained that the AMOUNT of control surface authority and then at only higher deflections is what is perceptably different.

At the same time KE stated that they did not change the physics code.

The planes with less deflection show no difference.

Assuming their statement is true, ergo the physics may have NOT been changed, which makes KE's statement correct, but at the same time there is a perceptable difference.

While this may SEEM contradictory to you, these are NOT mutually exclusive.


I'm sorry that this is too difficult for your obviously small mind to grasp.

Do you regularly label things which can appear contradictory lies or idiodicy?

Life must be very hard for you.



I've already explained that - before you even posted this. Did't read it? Or is that another one that you just didn't comprehend?



Yet you still complain about it!



I'm glad to hear it. Maybe KE would like to know that because they seem to feel otherwise.



Where?

My planes work just fine thank you.

But you don't have G4 yet do you?

You are just enjoying trying to dirty the water.



Really, show me. Point to the thread where KE said that they were contemplating a G4 release.


All you have to do is look.

They stated before that they would NOT announce before they were "permitted" to, but they have been putting forth hints for quite some time.

I've responded to these "hints" plenty of times.



You just love taking things out of context to bolster your position ... the statements were and are to be taken to their logical conclusion.


No, they were taken in exactly the same context given.

I've just illustrated how they were really non-sequitors, in spite of your attempts to make them related.



If you'd like to take them out of context and make unrealistic assumptions ...


.... then I would be doing as you do.



Thank you for bolstering my position. People, a large percentage - more people that own G3.5 - are simply keeping G3.5 and turning away from G4 because of the reasons that you've just stated - and many more.


That's a prime example of taking things out of context.

My original points were

- Yes the controller was changed.
- G3's marketing indeed said that it was a "good" controller, indeed I've never had any problems with it.
- It appears that later batches were the cause of most of the complaints.
- Someone must have listened to those complaints because they came out with a new changed controller.
- They indeed came out with a better controller with more features. e.g. "Improved".
- They did move a few things around. Big deal.
- A few voiciferous heli people picked up on this to complain.
- The more enterprising modified their own controller. ( you got to admire them.. )
- Your train of logic is an attempt to imply that people are turning AWAY from G4 because of changes."

Each a point by point response to each of yours since you don't like when I break them down individually, I did so collectively.

Yet no where does this bolster your position, rather each point refutes your original post...

And yet you take all of this together to mean that G4 is doing poorly.

I've cited examples of where I've seen this NOT to be the case.

Please give me something more concrete than a thread complaining about switch/knob placement, that shows that G4 is doing poorly?

My LHS continues to sell out of it.

Poorly indeed!




I'll give you the added water - but are you seriously asking me to believe that KE had nothing to do with beta testing a new release or marketing schedules!!???
BS!! Even Jim Bourke isn't that stupid.


And exactly where did I say anything about KE's involvement?

Again you did not READ what I wrote, and instead put your own spin on it.



I'll ignore the "you were not ..." statements because that's got to be some of the dumbest comments If read from you.



Maybe dumb to you, because it illustrates that the basis for all of your posts has thus far been nothing but speculation.

So I'll restate it again:

- They adjusted the controller at our behest.
- The added water effects at our behest.
- They stated that they are working on a solution to the add-ons, even though they don't have to.
- You are not privy to anything related to their marketing or schedule.
- You were not involved in G4 beta testing.
- You don't work for KE to know if any of your speculation has any basis of truth.

So DO YOU INDEED work for KE?

Which would make my statements "dumb"?




They don't deal with the costumers - you do.


Sorry I don't deal with apparal either... :D :D




This is a user helping user forum. All of the support is taken care of by RealFlight. Which leads me to wonder why these forums even exist anymore?



Well thus far it's given you a soapbox.

Don't you like the soapbox?

I like the soapbox.




Refer to the memo from Great Planes - dated 07/15/2007 - page 12 - subsection 4 - para. 2 ;)



Please forward that to me by PM so I can rebuke the people that should have sent it on to me.




KE said that they were working on incorporating the Add-ons ... you're telling me that wasn't planned?


1 - What we KNOW is that it was known to them that they could NOT get G2's planes into G4 because of changes to the code.

2 - We KNOW that they decided to release G4 without support for G2 planes.

Neither of these imply that they PLANNED on providing support for G2 planes although you are inferring that this does.

IF they DO add support for G2 planes, then this is just icing to the "cake" so to speak. I see no where in the EULA ( much as I hate those things... ) which states that this was their plan.




That KE - Jim Bourke - made that statement when G4 was released and it wasn't planned?



Jim made the statements I indicated above as 1 & 2.

He added that they were looking to see if they COULD add support.

No where does this imply that this was part of the "grand scheme".



I'm sorry, what's your point? Speculation is speculation.

If you want sales figures call RealFlight.




I'd wish you'd take that to heart.

You state that G4 is doing "poorly" and that people are not buying it.

Yet you are merely going by your own speculation.

I'm seeing far more concrete evidence that refutes your speculation.

e.g. LHS's running low, Tower running out every couple of weeks, etc.




You're a lot more negative then you're giving yourself credit for ... telling people that the physics have changed


You should really read my posts on the physics issues.



- that even a massive quad core machine can't render full graphics


Wow where did I say that?

I talked about scalablity.

I did say anything about NOT rendering "full graphics".

My machine has EVERYTHING maxed out as far as G4 can take it... even with 8Q anti-aliasing I'm getting at worst 25 FPS on the "slowest" fields with helis ( the most complex craft. ).

THAT's a STATEMENT.



- that add-ons are worthless


Sigh... I said that they need to be redone... because they are not up to G3/G4 standards.



- that G4 has problems


Hmmm where did I say this?

I talked about physics, and machine requirements, maybe you took that to be "problems".



... give yourself credit where credit is due. :DC



Thanks I always do!

[opjose]

opjose: None of the advertising said that the addons would not work.



You missed it then.

This was actually spelled out right at the beginning with the product announcement.

It is also stated in the FAQ's.


Do you work for Knife Edge or do you have so much money you love to throw it away?


Do you fly RC planes?

Have you ever crashed one to the point that it could not be rebuilt?

Like anything else we spend money on things.

What others may assume is "throwing" money away on a plane, may be justified to you....

You purchased G3 originally.

Did you consider it "throwing" money away at the time?

If not why do you do so now?

You used your add-ons, they worked fine for you.
You got what you paid for at the time.



I find it quite ridiculous when someone gets on a forum and tells everyone on it how blessed we are to be able to send more and more money to the company of their choice.


Yes who is the idiot who said that?

I never did.

I did say that KE was under NO obligation to provide G2 add-on support to you because they stated that G4 would not have it from the get go.

They were quick to point this out to us.

If they CAN, well that's very nice for you.

I'd prefer that they do NOT do it the way YOU want it, and instead opt for a bigger better "add-ons" package instead.



The total price of about $500 for all the addons, expansion packs, and G4 should buy us the portability of the extras.


So because you spent $500.00, KE is obligated to you?

In an ideal world that would be wonderful.

In the real world, it doesn't amount to much.

I have a nice 2.5 year old projection TV that is so big that I cannot move it to have it serviced. The repair shops will not come out to my house. Panasonic will not repair it. I spent $2750.00 for it new. No one will service it.

I - WISH - I could use the same argument with all of these people to fix my set.

I spent more than you did, shouldn't I get more consideration using the same logic as yours?


No, opjose. When I say should I mean should. Do not try to put words into my mouth by changing it to, I want. You obviously have not worked or written computer code. I have for 35 years, plus.


Actually I have written code, more than I ever care to, so I feel bad that you've had to do it for so long. I got out of it.

But that has nothing to do with your original post.

You may end up getting what YOU want with the patch if it is ever released.

It is not what I want though.

[opjose]

Agree 100%
So I think it is unrealistic to expect them to re-do them even for a retail CD at $40 or whatever price.



Oh, but let me dream!



But if they could spend a few hours just making a patch to bring the same old tired, worn out, crappy Add-ons planes into G4 then that would probably satisfy most users and they could also move on and just keep making newer and mo' betta' stuff. :cool:

Yes.

But they MAY or MAY NOT be able to do this.

( Note: The following is NOT aimed at you! )

If they are NOT able to do this, then have they ( as some people here seem to be saying, ) violated some unwritten agreement to come out with a G2 add-ons patch?

[ElectricFlyGuy]

I came here to try and add to my intelligence,but, all I see here is almost everyone taking turns attacking each other! This thread turned me off very quickly. I hope I find more intelligent folks in other threads that are more willing to solve problems than to make fun of someones posts and causing a chain reation. If I can't, then I guess this forum isn't for me then.

[opjose]

I hope I find more intelligent folks in other threads

Nope sorry it's the same people.

[ElectricFlyGuy]

What is this? Looks like an attack to me, like most other posts I've seen here!


Especially when it pertains to you taking things back out of context yet again!

Jim's announcement as to them "working" on it does and did not imply ( as you are doing ) that this was their intent from the beginning, rather that they hit a snag in the attempts to do so when they first looked to this.

If it were their intent to release with support for the G2 planes, then they would have done so.

Simple.



I guess that's because you're teaching me how, maybe?

Yet that conclusion is exactly what you and a few others are directly espousing.

e.g. if KE had "waited" you would be happier... how silly....

and that's what you effectively said.




Or it makes you appear to only accept your own answers.

I've already explained that the AMOUNT of control surface authority and then at only higher deflections is what is perceptably different.

At the same time KE stated that they did not change the physics code.

The planes with less deflection show no difference.

Assuming their statement is true, ergo the physics may have NOT been changed, which makes KE's statement correct, but at the same time there is a perceptable difference.

While this may SEEM contradictory to you, these are NOT mutually exclusive.


I'm sorry that this is too difficult for your obviously small mind to grasp.

Do you regularly label things which can appear contradictory lies or idiodicy?

Life must be very hard for you.



Yet you still complain about it!



Where?

My planes work just fine thank you.

But you don't have G4 yet do you?

You are just enjoying trying to dirty the water.



All you have to do is look.

They stated before that they would NOT announce before they were "permitted" to, but they have been putting forth hints for quite some time.

I've responded to these "hints" plenty of times.



No, they were taken in exactly the same context given.

I've just illustrated how they were really non-sequitors, in spite of your attempts to make them related.



.... then I would be doing as you do.



That's a prime example of taking things out of context.

My original points were

- Yes the controller was changed.
- G3's marketing indeed said that it was a "good" controller, indeed I've never had any problems with it.
- It appears that later batches were the cause of most of the complaints.
- Someone must have listened to those complaints because they came out with a new changed controller.
- They indeed came out with a better controller with more features. e.g. "Improved".
- They did move a few things around. Big deal.
- A few voiciferous heli people picked up on this to complain.
- The more enterprising modified their own controller. ( you got to admire them.. )
- Your train of logic is an attempt to imply that people are turning AWAY from G4 because of changes."

Each a point by point response to each of yours since you don't like when I break them down individually, I did so collectively.

Yet no where does this bolster your position, rather each point refutes your original post...

And yet you take all of this together to mean that G4 is doing poorly.

I've cited examples of where I've seen this NOT to be the case.

Please give me something more concrete than a thread complaining about switch/knob placement, that shows that G4 is doing poorly?

My LHS continues to sell out of it.

Poorly indeed!




And exactly where did I say anything about KE's involvement?

Again you did not READ what I wrote, and instead put your own spin on it.



Maybe dumb to you, because it illustrates that the basis for all of your posts has thus far been nothing but speculation.

So I'll restate it again:

- They adjusted the controller at our behest.
- The added water effects at our behest.
- They stated that they are working on a solution to the add-ons, even though they don't have to.
- You are not privy to anything related to their marketing or schedule.
- You were not involved in G4 beta testing.
- You don't work for KE to know if any of your speculation has any basis of truth.

So DO YOU INDEED work for KE?

Which would make my statements "dumb"?




Sorry I don't deal with apparal either... :D :D




Well thus far it's given you a soapbox.

Don't you like the soapbox?

I like the soapbox.




Please forward that to me by PM so I can rebuke the people that should have sent it on to me.




1 - What we KNOW is that it was known to them that they could NOT get G2's planes into G4 because of changes to the code.

2 - We KNOW that they decided to release G4 without support for G2 planes.

Neither of these imply that they PLANNED on providing support for G2 planes although you are inferring that this does.

IF they DO add support for G2 planes, then this is just icing to the "cake" so to speak. I see no where in the EULA ( much as I hate those things... ) which states that this was their plan.




Jim made the statements I indicated above as 1 & 2.

He added that they were looking to see if they COULD add support.

No where does this imply that this was part of the "grand scheme".




I'd wish you'd take that to heart.

You state that G4 is doing "poorly" and that people are not buying it.

Yet you are merely going by your own speculation.

I'm seeing far more concrete evidence that refutes your speculation.

e.g. LHS's running low, Tower running out every couple of weeks, etc.





You should really read my posts on the physics issues.



Wow where did I say that?

I talked about scalablity.

I did say anything about NOT rendering "full graphics".

My machine has EVERYTHING maxed out as far as G4 can take it... even with 8Q anti-aliasing I'm getting at worst 25 FPS on the "slowest" fields with helis ( the most complex craft. ).

THAT's a STATEMENT.




Sigh... I said that they need to be redone... because they are not up to G3/G4 standards.




Hmmm where did I say this?

I talked about physics, and machine requirements, maybe you took that to be "problems".



Thanks I always do!

[ElectricFlyGuy]

AWWWWWWWWWWWW Crap! :D



Nope sorry it's the same people.

[HX3D014]

I came here to try and add to my intelligence,but, all I see here is almost everyone taking turns attacking each other! This thread turned me off very quickly. I hope I find more intelligent folks in other threads that are more willing to solve problems than to make fun of someones posts and causing a chain reation. If I can't, then I guess this forum isn't for me then.
Don't worry about this thread. Just skip it ;)

There are Other threads that are generally the RF users getting along. and not Hacking at the Company that Brought us here.

Hope you find them, and enjoy them.

PS. Do a search of the Topic you are interested in .and float it ;)

PS. Welcome to the Forums. sorry it was introduced here in this thread. But at least there is a welcome in there some where :)

Bryce.

[FireFly617]

Don't worry about this thread. Just skip it ;)

There are Other threads that are generally the RF users getting along. and not Hacking at the Company that Brought us here.

Hope you find them, and enjoy them.

PS. Do a search of the Topic you are interested in .and float it ;)

PS. Welcome to the Forums. sorry it was introduced here in this thread. But at least there is a welcome in there some where :)

Bryce.


I second that and welcome.

[r1derbike]

Yes! Welcome! Don't worry about this thread, usually everyone has their say, or two, or three, and then on to other things.

Some of the posts here at KE forums, may actually take a stab at a little humor (very little sometimes...click on the link). :D

http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18808

Charles

[jeffpn]

Isn't it interesting that there are those people who feel that they threw money away or were ripped off because they bought addons 1-5 which they feel are now worthless because they don't work on G4, yet no one is complaining the same things about spending money on their G3?? The same must be true (from their point of view). Of course, their only reply (as far as I can guess), is that they would say, "Well, we don't have to sell our G3" so my reply to that would be obvious.

[Johndou]

Especially when it pertains to you taking things back out of context yet again!

Jim's announcement as to them "working" on it does and did not imply ( as you are doing ) that this was their intent from the beginning, rather that they hit a snag in the attempts to do so when they first looked to this.

If it were their intent to release with support for the G2 planes, then they would have done so.

Simple.



I guess that's because you're teaching me how, maybe?

Yet that conclusion is exactly what you and a few others are directly espousing.

e.g. if KE had "waited" you would be happier... how silly....

and that's what you effectively said.




Or it makes you appear to only accept your own answers.

I've already explained that the AMOUNT of control surface authority and then at only higher deflections is what is perceptably different.

At the same time KE stated that they did not change the physics code.

The planes with less deflection show no difference.

Assuming their statement is true, ergo the physics may have NOT been changed, which makes KE's statement correct, but at the same time there is a perceptable difference.

While this may SEEM contradictory to you, these are NOT mutually exclusive.


I'm sorry that this is too difficult for your obviously small mind to grasp.

Do you regularly label things which can appear contradictory lies or idiodicy?

Life must be very hard for you.



Yet you still complain about it!



Where?

My planes work just fine thank you.

But you don't have G4 yet do you?

You are just enjoying trying to dirty the water.



All you have to do is look.

They stated before that they would NOT announce before they were "permitted" to, but they have been putting forth hints for quite some time.

I've responded to these "hints" plenty of times.



No, they were taken in exactly the same context given.

I've just illustrated how they were really non-sequitors, in spite of your attempts to make them related.



.... then I would be doing as you do.



That's a prime example of taking things out of context.

My original points were

- Yes the controller was changed.
- G3's marketing indeed said that it was a "good" controller, indeed I've never had any problems with it.
- It appears that later batches were the cause of most of the complaints.
- Someone must have listened to those complaints because they came out with a new changed controller.
- They indeed came out with a better controller with more features. e.g. "Improved".
- They did move a few things around. Big deal.
- A few voiciferous heli people picked up on this to complain.
- The more enterprising modified their own controller. ( you got to admire them.. )
- Your train of logic is an attempt to imply that people are turning AWAY from G4 because of changes."

Each a point by point response to each of yours since you don't like when I break them down individually, I did so collectively.

Yet no where does this bolster your position, rather each point refutes your original post...

And yet you take all of this together to mean that G4 is doing poorly.

I've cited examples of where I've seen this NOT to be the case.

Please give me something more concrete than a thread complaining about switch/knob placement, that shows that G4 is doing poorly?

My LHS continues to sell out of it.

Poorly indeed!




And exactly where did I say anything about KE's involvement?

Again you did not READ what I wrote, and instead put your own spin on it.



Maybe dumb to you, because it illustrates that the basis for all of your posts has thus far been nothing but speculation.

So I'll restate it again:

- They adjusted the controller at our behest.
- The added water effects at our behest.
- They stated that they are working on a solution to the add-ons, even though they don't have to.
- You are not privy to anything related to their marketing or schedule.
- You were not involved in G4 beta testing.
- You don't work for KE to know if any of your speculation has any basis of truth.

So DO YOU INDEED work for KE?

Which would make my statements "dumb"?




Sorry I don't deal with apparal either... :D :D




Well thus far it's given you a soapbox.

Don't you like the soapbox?

I like the soapbox.




Please forward that to me by PM so I can rebuke the people that should have sent it on to me.




1 - What we KNOW is that it was known to them that they could NOT get G2's planes into G4 because of changes to the code.

2 - We KNOW that they decided to release G4 without support for G2 planes.

Neither of these imply that they PLANNED on providing support for G2 planes although you are inferring that this does.

IF they DO add support for G2 planes, then this is just icing to the "cake" so to speak. I see no where in the EULA ( much as I hate those things... ) which states that this was their plan.




Jim made the statements I indicated above as 1 & 2.

He added that they were looking to see if they COULD add support.

No where does this imply that this was part of the "grand scheme".




I'd wish you'd take that to heart.

You state that G4 is doing "poorly" and that people are not buying it.

Yet you are merely going by your own speculation.

I'm seeing far more concrete evidence that refutes your speculation.

e.g. LHS's running low, Tower running out every couple of weeks, etc.





You should really read my posts on the physics issues.



Wow where did I say that?

I talked about scalablity.

I did say anything about NOT rendering "full graphics".

My machine has EVERYTHING maxed out as far as G4 can take it... even with 8Q anti-aliasing I'm getting at worst 25 FPS on the "slowest" fields with helis ( the most complex craft. ).

THAT's a STATEMENT.




Sigh... I said that they need to be redone... because they are not up to G3/G4 standards.




Hmmm where did I say this?

I talked about physics, and machine requirements, maybe you took that to be "problems".



Thanks I always do!

I did NOT say that "... G4 is doing poorly." What I said was that "... more people that own G3.5 - are simply keeping G3.5 and turning away from G4 ..."

But, just like virtually everything else that I had to say, you needed to put your own twist on it in order to fit with your reality and to try to make your point. At the same time you needed to make me appear somehow less then you ...

As has been pointed out, more then once, you like to attack people. You have this need to bolster your own ego by putting others down. Sad actually, very sad.

It's apparent that KE and you have some sort of relationship. Whether you're actually paid by them isn't the issue. But, there's something about you and KE that causes you to come to their defense whenever you deem that to be needed.

What Jim said about supporting the Add-ons is still available for anyone to read. But, again you need to clarify it to somehow bolster your interpretation of his words.

Unfortunately, the older Add Ons just couldn't be reworked to fit into G4's way of doing things. We are still looking into some way of making these packs available to RealFlight G4 customers.

He said that in the release announcement for G4. So, they (KE) planned, before the release of G4, to try to make the add-ons compatible.

Maybe in your teleconferences with the KE staff you've learned that they no longer plan to do this ... maybe in a conversation with Jim ... the thing that I don't understand is why you seem to want to tell everyone that the AO's are not supported and may never be? When it's obviouse that KE is working on them.

[r1derbike]

Jeffpn, one poster complained that he bought G3.5, expansion packs, and adds-on, then (if I remember correctly) a week or so later, G4 hit the market.

I've done similar, with major hardware purchases for computers, only to find a new piece of hardware was introduced in a few weeks. Bummer, for a bit, but given the state of advancement, inevitable.

Even the above poster could sell his G3.5 (with adds-on) on ebay, keep the expansion packs for G4, and get the merchandise allowance or rebate to reduce the upgrade cost, by a nice margin.

If GP's rebate/merchandise allowance doesn't sweeten the deal for some, then they won't be satisfied until adds-on 1-5 work on G4.

I've got adds-on 1-5 too (as many do). If they couldn't be imported into G4, wouldn't matter at all.

Two choices:

1. Keep G3.5 and fly them in that sim.

2. Sell them with G3.5 on ebay to recoup G4 upgrade costs.

I don't understand the KE or GP bashing over this issue? It sounds a lot like immature juvenile sniveling, and that's being nice.

Charles

[josh0987]

Yeah, to think someone would complain about such a stupid thing...

They were intended for G2, remember that. We're at G4 now :rolleyes:

You'd expect them to work right? G4 is high performance now! no more dull G2 airplanes and helicopter!

The point is they never said they were going to make add ons workable for G4... You just want them too.

It's 2 generations ahead now... Don't expect them to be patched.

It's like saying you want to buy a car that doesn't have heated seats as an option, but you want it!

WANT!!!

EDIT: I'm still up with the re - do add on pack idea!

[skubacb]

Egods what long winded posting.

I believe that KE is working on getting the addons to work with G4.

They should be doing this because they did not state in any advertising or packaging that they would not work. It is common practice to put right on the package something such as "Not compatible with G2 aircraft." or "Not compatible with addons 1-5" They did not so yet they should be working on this.

Please not another loooooong tirade

[josh0987]

Egods what long winded posting.

I believe that KE is working on getting the addons to work with G4.

They should be doing this because they did not state in any advertising or packaging that they would not work. It is common practice to put right on the package something such as "Not compatible with G2 aircraft." or "Not compatible with addons 1-5" They did not so yet they should be working on this.

Please not another loooooong tiradeHave you seen the announcements sub forum? :rolleyes:

[jeffpn]

r1derbike, I meant (but did not state) except for people who just got G3, no one is complaining about the money they spent on G3. Incidentally, I do have the 5 AOs and the 4 EPs. I do like the post about the lack of a G4 AO incompatability disclaimer, with the intent to force KE to make them compatable :D

[jbourke]

It's apparent that KE and you have some sort of relationship.

KE has no affiliation with opjose. His words are no more or less valid than yours or any other user.

Jim

[HX3D014]

Egods what long winded posting.

I believe that KE is working on getting the addons to work with G4.

They should be doing this because they did not state in any advertising or packaging that they would not work. It is common practice to put right on the package something such as "Not compatible with G2 aircraft." or "Not compatible with addons 1-5" They did not so yet they should be working on this.

Please not another loooooong tirade
what dose it say on the Add Ons box ?

I believe that KE is working on getting the addons to work with G4.
So do I.

That part in red is your opinion. rather Demanding.
I will not try to reason with you.

Just point out the other way of looking at it.

AO1 (http://www.realflight.com/products/ao1index.html) says;
Add-Ons 1 is NOT compatible with RealFlight NexSTAR Edition.

AO2 (http://www.realflight.com/products/ao2index.html) says;
Add-Ons Volume Two works in conjuction with RealFlight, and retains all of RealFlight's extraordinary features, including:

Stunning 3D graphics
Multiple viewpoint options
Doppler-correct, CD-quality stereo sound
RealPhysics performance
Over 200 parameter options


Add-Ons 2 is NOT compatible with RealFlight NexSTAR Edition.

AO3 (http://www.realflight.com/products/ao3index.html) says;
Add-Ons Volume Three works in conjuction with RealFlight*, and retains all of RealFlight's extraordinary features, including:


Stunning 3D graphics

Multiple viewpoint options

Doppler-correct, CD-quality stereo sound

RealPhysics performance

Over 200 parameter options

*Please note: Raptor helicopter simulations are compatible only with RealFlight Deluxe or Generation 2 software, and are not available for use with RealFlight Classic.


Raptor 30 and 60 helicopters reproduced with the authorization of Thunder Tiger Model Corporation®. Thunder Tiger Raptor 30 and 60 helicopters registration pending, all rights reserved.
Add-Ons 3 is NOT compatible with RealFlight NexSTAR Edition.


AO4 (http://www.realflight.com/products/ao4index.html) says;
Heli simulations are only compatible with RealFlight Deluxe or Generation 2 software; they are not compatible with RealFlight Classic. All trademarks and registered marks are property of their respective owners. Caliber 30TM and Concept EPTM helicopters reproduced with the authorization of the Kyosho Corporation®. Fighter Combat International trim scheme reproduced with the authorization of Fighter Combat International.

AO5 (http://www.realflight.com/products/ao5index.html) says;
*Add-Ons 5 is only compatible with RealFlight G3 and G2 software. All trademarks and registered marks are property of their respective owners.

Get the drift ?

[r1derbike]

r1derbike, I meant (but did not state) except for people who just got G3, no one is complaining about the money they spent on G3.
Touche!

No matter what Jim, or anyone at KE or GP tries to do, there's always somebody who feels slighted! I don't know how they cope! :D

Come-up with a plan to help previous G3x owners upgrade; SLAM!

Come-up with a plan to see if Adds-On 1-5 may be imported into G4; SLAM!

Offer free G3 to G3.5 upgrades and updates; SLAM!

Offer a KE forum for users to *hopefully* help each other; SLAM!

I own G3, G3.5, and G4, Adds-on 1-5, Expansion Packs 1 and 2, and all I lack are Expansion Packs 3 and 4, which I hope to get in a stocking!

I've still got everything I paid-for, and have received WAY more fun and satisfaction than whatever it cost! Way more! Not to mention the thousands it has saved in wrecked 3D airplanes over the last 3 years.

These guys & gals deserve a big pat on the back at KE and GP, even though it seems there are far too few doing so. Kudos. Keep improving your product, and I'll keep coming back for more.

Charles

[r1derbike]

HX3D014, excellent post. Pretty much lays it all out there, and you've already done the research for prospective buyers.

Charles

[r1derbike]

They should be doing this because they did not state in any advertising or packaging that they would not work.
Skubacb, I don't mean to sound harsh, but there will not be someone available to hold our hands through all of our purchases. We have to take responsibility by researching our purchases thoroughly, before springing our green.

I've made unwise purchases in the past by not properly researching product, and it is my own fault. I quit the "they should have done this, or they should have done that" blaming game a long time ago, when I realized that it wasn't someone else's fault that I made a stupid decision.

Far too much of the, "it's everyone else's fault" floating around.

Charles

[HX3D014]

HX3D014, excellent post. Pretty much lays it all out there, and you've already done the research for prospective buyers.

Charles
Thanks :D

But wait! there is more :D


AO1 (http://www.realflight.com/products/ao1index.html) says;
Add-Ons 1 is NOT compatible with RealFlight NexSTAR Edition.
But you Might like to know that AO1 is also known to work with FRDelux, RFG2, RFG3, and RFG3.5

AO2 (http://www.realflight.com/products/ao2index.html) says;
Add-Ons Volume Two works in conjuction with RealFlight, and retains all of RealFlight's extraordinary features, including:

Stunning 3D graphics
Multiple viewpoint options
Doppler-correct, CD-quality stereo sound
RealPhysics performance
Over 200 parameter options


Add-Ons 2 is NOT compatible with RealFlight NexSTAR Edition.
But you Might like to know that AO2 is also known to work with FRDelux, RFG2, RFG3, and RFG3.5

AO3 (http://www.realflight.com/products/ao3index.html) says;
Add-Ons Volume Three works in conjuction with RealFlight*, and retains all of RealFlight's extraordinary features, including:


Stunning 3D graphics

Multiple viewpoint options

Doppler-correct, CD-quality stereo sound

RealPhysics performance

Over 200 parameter options

*Please note: Raptor helicopter simulations are compatible only with RealFlight Deluxe or Generation 2 software, and are not available for use with RealFlight Classic.


Raptor 30 and 60 helicopters reproduced with the authorization of Thunder Tiger Model Corporation®. Thunder Tiger Raptor 30 and 60 helicopters registration pending, all rights reserved.
Add-Ons 3 is NOT compatible with RealFlight NexSTAR Edition.

But you Might like to know that AO3 is also known to work with RFG3, and RFG3.5

AO4 (http://www.realflight.com/products/ao4index.html) says;
Heli simulations are only compatible with RealFlight Deluxe or Generation 2 software; they are not compatible with RealFlight Classic. All trademarks and registered marks are property of their respective owners. Caliber 30TM and Concept EPTM helicopters reproduced with the authorization of the Kyosho Corporation®. Fighter Combat International trim scheme reproduced with the authorization of Fighter Combat International.
But you Might like to know that AO4 is also known to work with RFG3, and RFG3.5

AO5 (http://www.realflight.com/products/ao5index.html) says;
*Add-Ons 5 is only compatible with RealFlight G3 and G2 software. All trademarks and registered marks are property of their respective owners.
But you Might like to know that AO5 is also known to work with RFG3.5

[r1derbike]

But wait! there is more.
You're just a veritable bastion of pertinent information, tonight! :D

I'm not worthy! :D

Charles

[HX3D014]

You're just a veritable bastion of pertinent information, tonight! :D

I'm not worthy! :D

Charles
Thanks again.

Took me a while to Check those big words in a dictionary/thesaurus just to make sure they were actually In the positive for me ;)

[r1derbike]

Took me a while to Check those big words in a dictionary/thesaurus just to make sure they were actually In the positive for meYou're welcome! Best I could do on such short notice... ;)

Charles

[Johndou]

KE has no affiliation with opjose. His words are no more or less valid than yours or any other user.

Jim



Aallrriiiiiighty then. Yep, sure thing, you betcha ... :rolleyes:

It’s not that I don’t believe you Jim ... let’s just say that I’m reminded of the old saying - “The appearance of impropriety is an impropriety.” ;)


Opjose was largely responsible for at least two people being banned from these boards in recent weeks. One, in which xpticle was banned, was an obvious - to this reader - miscarriage. Anyone with more then a high school education and adult reading comprehension could understand by reading that particular thread from beginning to end that xpticle was not promoting, advocating or in any way even suggesting that software piracy was an acceptable practice. But, opjose twisted his words into his own meaning, eventually resulting in the banning of another user. For someone who has no affiliation with KE that seemed a bit strange.

For someone to be banned for offering suggestions as to how KE could better protect their software from international piracy - and having the only opposition coming from one person - it sure points a pretty big accusatory finger at that one person. But of course opjose has no affiliation with KE so the ban must have come from an administrator - who would have read the post ... I assume that all of your admins have a high school education?

There was another recent incident where someone - asked opjose to “shut-up”. It seems they were getting a bit miffed at him answering every question with his long winded answers. There was no “attack” involved. Well, until opjose answered the post and attacked the poster. Opjose then let everyone know that at least one other post, in the thread of about nine responses by now, was from the same user, using a different user name. For someone with no affiliation with KE to have that kind of information ... well, it raises questions. By the way, that particular thread was removed. Not in days, but just hours after it was posted. How did that happen - assuming that opjose has no affiliation with KE? :confused:

And, then just the other day ... When giving advice to a person with problems, he instructs them to; “... UPLOAD the file (to KE) so we can download it.”

Yet this person has no affiliation with KE. Okay, sure, if you say so. You might want to let opjose know that. ... the appearance of impropriety ...

[Norton]

( And, then just the other day ... When giving advice to a person with problems, he instructs them to; “... UPLOAD the file (to KE) so we can download it.”)

I read this and it meant upload your system info to the KE FORUM so WE the users could take a look at it. This is done all the time!

I think you read just a little to much in to this stuff?

Always so negative and argumentative.

[FireFly617]

Brovo r1derbike and HX30014. It is refreshing to see two people that thinks in this mess. The Forum Should be to share ideas, help each other and have a comradery (Dictionary time :D ) With others that has the same interest instead of bickering.
I Went From G2 to G3.5 in June and don't plan on getting G4 any time soon (At least till thay work out the bugs ;) ). I also have Add-ons 1-5 and Expansion packs 1-3 and don't plan on getting rid of them.
This is an excellent Simulator an it does everything I need right now. ( Hats off to KE)
I'm Not going to get mad that my computer is outdated even though it is less than a year old so why get mad that KE came out with a new program.
Those that got G3.5 shortly before G4 can take it up with KE directly and that looks like what is happening.

THats just my one cent worth.(taxes wen't up :rolleyes: )

[ven2s]

Wow, the G4 wars go on! People are being banned now! I am glad I have just been doing Avs and am just checking forums today, doing AVs seems the safest place to be. We need to take perspective in all this and stop tearing into each other. We are all part of a relatively small group. So I like G3.5 and didn't get G4! So you got G4 and I hung unto G3 like a bastard...thank God for choices and the freedom to express and exercise our rights to chose. Life is short...G4 or G3 or G2; enjoy!!!!! We both got top line products and probably saved alot of balsa and fiberglass in the process, isn't that what it's all about, getting better at our hobby? I have said some negative things about KE myself, but I can say this; without KE's contribution, whether that be G2, G3, or G4, my skills would not be where they are today and that's worth the freakin $200.00 or whatever they're asking...if you want to spend it! Cause most of us have more wrapped up in our models! So take a deep breath, enjoy what you each have, and have fun!!!

See ya on swaps!!!!!! ;)

[Johndou]

( And, then just the other day ... When giving advice to a person with problems, he instructs them to; “... UPLOAD the file (to KE) so we can download it.”)

I read this and it meant upload your system info to the KE FORUM so WE the users could take a look at it. This is done all the time!

I think you read just a little to much in to this stuff?

Always so negative and argumentative.

You're right - I was wrong. He was talking about the users looking at it. I jumped too soon to a conclusion on that one.

How did he know about the IP address being the same for two different user names? Why was one person banned when the only negative (misconceptions) came from him?

Always so negative and argumentative? Always is an awful long time ... I'm sorry to hear that you consider all of my posts negative and argumentative - there have been several where I have praised KE.

If you're going to ask your users for their input, you're going to get some negative input.

...my skills would not be where they are today and that's worth the freakin $200.00 or whatever they're asking...

ABSOLUTELY!!!

This is an excellent Simulator an it does everything I need right now. ( Hats off to KE)
I'm Not going to get mad that my computer is outdated even though it is less than a year old so why get mad that KE came out with a new program.

I couldn't agree more!

[josh0987]

ABSOLUTELY!!! Rather spend.... I don't know... 10 Times that from real world crashes? Use the noodle!

[jbourke]

Yet this person has no affiliation with KE. Okay, sure, if you say so. You might want to let opjose know that. ... the appearance of impropriety ...

I'm not here to resolve your feelings about another user. I ask that you take them offline.

Jim