What happened to Events? (dead stick, limbo, etc)

[mikeinde]

I know they were buggy in G4, but I was hoping they would be fixed in G5, not eliminated!

Combat looks cute, but I don't think it's worth $80.

Realflight is a simulator, not a video game. I liked the idea of the old events because they helped develop your piloting skills.

[jeffpn]

There have been many, many requests to add combat type events in the past. There has been little interest in the old events as far as I've seen. Rarely have I seen event sessions in the past. RF is still a simulator, and G5 could be considered a game.

[mikeinde]

The reason I didn't use the multiplayer events more in the past is because they didn't work. Player one would take a turn, and then the event engine wouldn't recognize when player two took a turn, etc.

I still used events in single player mode -- it made practice a little more interesting when working on autorotations, etc.

My main point is that nowhere in the release notes/literature did they mention that the functionality was removed.

[Zelatio]

I liked the idea of the old events because they helped develop your piloting skills.

What exactly about the new events are going to not help you as a pilot? I see these helping a lot with quick reflexes and controlling the aircraft at all different speeds.

[mikeinde]

It seems like the new events are geared toward flying from a first person view in a video game fashion.

The old events were geared toward classic RC skill development from the "proper" ground/flightline vantage point -- useful for developing RC skills.

It seems that although the combat events may be fun, they offer limited skills development unless you are going to be flying from a first person view (a small minority of RC fliers).

I do welcome the streamer combat event since there is a corresponding real-world RC event.

My issue has less to do with the addition of the combat events, but more about the removal of the old events. I will miss them -- even if I am apparently the only one who will. It seems like Knife-Edge took a bit of a short cut -- rather than fix the bugs in the old events, they just eliminated them.

Don't get me wrong -- I love RF -- I have spent hundreds of hours using it (to the point of wearing out the ratchet on the throttle stick), and hundreds of dollars on the product, expansion packs, and upgrades. It just seems to me that if you want a first person combat flight simulator, there are plenty of games on the market to do that. I am simply concerned that if RF continues down the path of being a game, it will take resources away from continuing to improve the simulator aspects (physics, training tools, etc.), which is why I spent my hard earned money on it in the first place. I can rattle off half a dozen RC simulator related improvements that I would have rather seen implemented before machine gun, paint ball, and rocket combat.

[Norton]

Hey Jeff,

Didn't I hear you say that you can have G4.5 and G.5 installed on the same computer?

Also, I have a question about this. Can you still fly G4.5 (stand alone) with G.5 installed then switch to G.5?

G.5 finally shipped today, don't know what happened.

[opjose]

Don't get me wrong -- I love RF -- I have spent hundreds of hours using it (to the point of wearing out the ratchet on the throttle stick), and hundreds of dollars on the product, expansion packs, and upgrades. It just seems to me that if you want a first person combat flight simulator, there are plenty of games on the market to do that.

This is a "glass half empty" type of response.

Simply because a feature was enhanced does it mean that other things will fall apart.

If anything the benefits of the new upgrade will continue to improve single player experience.

e.g. the technique used for the vultures have application for creating typical field pattern flights, to get a novice use to practicing and flying with other aircraft in the air.

etc, etc. etc.

Don't ASSUME the worst.

[jbourke]

My issue has less to do with the addition of the combat events, but more about the removal of the old events. I will miss them -- even if I am apparently the only one who will. It seems like Knife-Edge took a bit of a short cut -- rather than fix the bugs in the old events, they just eliminated them.


I miss the old events, too, so you aren't alone. Those events have been in the product, in some form, since G2, and it was hard to let them go.

However, from the feedback we received from the users, it was clear that improvement in the event system was a very popular request. Multiplayer gaming is very commonplace now, and customers have high expectations.

We discussed the idea of improving the old events, but felt that such an effort would be just as time consuming as starting over, but would lack the marketing punch of a whole new series of games.

Over time we hope to expand on the game offerings and hopefully provide a nice mix of real-world R/C events as well as fun games to attract people to the hobby.

Thanks for sticking with the product and for making helpful comments. Both are appreciated.

Jim

[ctdannyd]

There has been limited actual flying of combat at our club. There are a few that do, but this would be a great way for more members to "get their feet wet".

I think it's a great new feature. Sure, you "could" fly from the pilot seat vantage point, but the prospect at flying against some of the better flyers in the club, in a true RC vantage point has my attention!

[jeffpn]

Hey Jeff,

Didn't I hear you say that you can have G4.5 and G.5 installed on the same computer?

Also, I have a question about this. Can you still fly G4.5 (stand alone) with G.5 installed then switch to G.5?

G.5 finally shipped today, don't know what happened.
I have G4.5 and G5 installed on my computer. They are independent of each other. They cannot run at the same time.

[Norton]

That's what I meant.

So if you start G4.5 you can still fly multi even though you have G.5?

In other words, flying G4.5 online and G.5 is possible. Not at the same time of course.

[jeffpn]

Yep, if there's no G5 sessions available, you can shut it down and fire up G4.5 to look for sessions. If your portforwarding is configured for G4.5, it's configured for G5. (But not the other way around. G5 uses a few less ports than G4.5) Of course, this all assumes both versions are on the same computer.

[r1derbike]

Learning 3D and accelerated stall maneuvers on G3 did more for me than the training tools. Aerobatic aircraft were tippy, and separated the men from the boys.

Went directly to the 3D choppers and started crashing and learning. Helped tremendously.

Baptism by fire. It saved me thousands in crashed planes, yet after flying combat in G5, the sim now would seem naked without it.

Honestly, after flying G5, the sim, and G5, the combat features, the sim (it still is a sim) is better for it.

KE has a history of listening to its sim users, and that greases the wheel of advancement.

Tough job, trying to keep everyone happy! :D

Charles

[Norton]

mikeinde,


From what Jeff said, G4.5 and G.5 can be used separately. If that is the case, just use G4.5 for the events you like.

[mikeinde]

Yes,

I can run 4.5 to run the old events in single user mode, like had been, but I was hoping that they would have been fixed in G5 for multi-player rather than eliminated.

[theluthier]

mikeinde,


From what Jeff said, G4.5 and G.5 can be used separately. If that is the case, just use G4.5 for the events you like.
They don't work in MP mode - only SP.

Regards
Michael

[Phoenex]

Limbo was a very nice event if the bugs could get worked out. I would like to see some of these types of events placed back into the sim WITHOUT bugs.

[utixo]

Apologies for starting up a slightly old thread, but I just got the G5 expansion, coming from 3.5.

Me and my friends have always played a custom version of autorotation.. Total time for each turn was 2 minutes. We did 90 seconds or so of a 3d routine, and if we survived that we could auto/deadstick for points. The winner got to choose the next plane.

Limbo and pylon race were used for tie-breakers.

Regular landing was used for planes that were impossible to deadstick (the Osprey isn't impossible.. but darn close!)

Just count this post as another vote to put the old events back. ;)

[Maj. Numbskully]

yup they are gone......some like limbo never worked correctly when 4.5 came out ...
... my guess is that they could not be fixed so they just got rid of them and/or they interfered with the new more realistic :rolleyes: RC events like paintballs and missiles on RC Aifcraft!! :rolleyes: :(

[Timsa]

I just bought G5 to replace my G3.5 which I gave to a friend.

I spent the last hour looking for events (limbo, spot landing etc). It's still in the help documentation (as if it exists).

I figured I just didn't know how to find it.

Then I came to this forum and found out that someone felt they new the user community well enough to make a decision to remove existing functionality.

Additionally, G5 has crashed three times today. G3.5 NEVER crashed on me.

I'm looking for a used G3.5 now.... sigh...

[Maj. Numbskully]

why did you get rid of 3.5??....you CAN have both installed on the same machine

[jeffpn]

G5 upgrade, uses G3 controller - $80
G5 full program, comes with controller - $200

[lovelesspl]

Please Please bring back the SP Events!

[edoctoor]

I don't use combat, as I am waiting for the game LOOP HOLES
or CHEATS to be controlled; or added to everyone equally.
So don't eliminate combat just because I am not using it, because I am
just waiting for a fair playing field.

I bought G5 expecting that Radio Control Events would have been improved.

My G3.5 controller has intermittent (the USB connector) glitches and
I can not play the events because the update G5 controller
isn't recognized by the G3.5 program.

Please consider adding the Events, and a patch so that my G3.5 will
be able to use the G5 controller... after all I bought the G5 controller
because the G3.5 controller was failing.

I have heard that the G3.5 servers might be closed, and I have
heard that some people are afraid of that rumor... Because they
don't want to be forced into getting the next UPGRADE at
$200.00 plus 8 x $32.00 in expansion packs and
the expense of getting a new computer to handle the
upgrade. It is like this, your customers understand your
server used to stop people from stealing your software; however,
a server shouldn't be used limit the lifespan of the software.


No this isn't off topic... because I want to inform KnifeEdge that
most of the G3.5 user are not able to configure their routers
and they were depending on the Guru's to host.
Since the RF Guru's moved to G4.5 and G5.5 these
poor people don't know how to host, and therefore the
server is empty.

Please create a patch to make hosting for G3.5
doable; for the elderly and for the 4-14 year olds
that don't have permission to adjust their parents
routers. As a result, they would be playing your game
and people generally stick with what they start with
as long as it is their choice to update.

Your right, I guess I am off topic.. sorry about that ;-)

Please consider adding the Events, and a patch so that my G3.5 will
be able to use the G5 controller... after all I bought the G5 controller
because the G3.5 controller's USB connection was failing.

Point form:
* consider adding the Events
* consider G3.5 patch so that the updated G5 controller will be recognized
* consider G3.5 patch to make G3.5 hosting simple


Not for me... but for your sales.
Look at it this way...

I person buys G3.5 and then they upgrade to G5.5 what are
the possibilities?

(1) The person has G3.5 and G5.5 on their computer; as a result,
no more residual sales.

(2) The person has G3.5 and G5.5 on their computer and gets
to host/join G3.5 and G5.5 with their new G5 controller; as a result,
the G5 person can convince other G3.5/G4.5 to upgrade to G5
Wow, residual sales!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(3) The person has G3.5 and G5.5 on their computer and the G3.5
gets a patch and multiplayer is simple to join; as a result,
Someone will host, and the G3.5 wouldn't be garbage
since it will still work and be able to taunt people to
sell/trade/lend the old G3.5 (that you already been paid for)
and then some of the people on the receiving end may actually
upgrade someday.
Wow, residual sales!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(4) People will know that you wouldn't shut down the servers; as a result,
you regain people trust.
Wow, residual sales!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(5) People get an update controller; and a update of events; as a result,
you regain people trust.
Wow, residual sales!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When people ask me about RealFlight G5
I would love to say that it is the best product that I have ever used;
without, feeling obligated to warn them of all the deceptions/disappointments:

* Updated controller doesn't work as an updated controller
(G3.5 doesn't recognize that the G5 controller is attached to the computer)
* RealFlight G5 comes with Default P-51 but the update removed planes
from the sky and replaced them with a MS-DOS 3.1 looking default plane.
* If that wasn't bad enough KnifeEdge allows people to post swap files
sharing color schemes; KnifeEdge actually programmed RealFlight to
toggle only one of the two to display the color scheme; as a result,
while in multiplayer you won't see twelve different aircrafts in the
default sky. Most of the time you will see lots of default MS-DOS 3.1
looking default planes and tons of aircraft with white or missing color schemes.
The sad part is that the customers are not dumb; and they assume
that RealFlight was programmed NOT to be visually pleasant in
order to sell expansion packs. However, the expansion packs
don't solve either of these issues. (I know I bought all the Expansion Packs)
* Keep in mind, that the real reason that the expansion packs are
not an hot item is that they are invisible to others and replaced with
the default cup cakes or airports that your non-expansion pack
friends can not join so you can not host any custom airport
since you don't know which one are tied to expansion packs.
* The server/application crashes and doesn't give a log of what
cause the crash so that KnifeEdge can fix it.
* If you have 5000 aircrafts and you import 50 more you have
to search for them individually to create a dds and complete
the import.
* Most old timers or non-computer guru's use Internet Explorer
and for some reason the swap files download as zip files in
Internet Explorer and as expected in FireFox. Try explaining
to an old timer that for the first time ever; "DON'T UNZIP"
just import.
* The box states 31 multiplayer's; however, never happens.
* The events in G3.5/G4.5 have been removed completely in G5

I just can not believe that the events are gone
because the events wasn't used a lot in hosted sessions
(because they didn't work in multiplayer mode)
that it was that we didn't want what we paid for, just because we
quietly waited for events in the next upgrade.

Secondly, I am sure that a lot more people would
state what I have on this forum; however, disappointed people
don't generally hang around a forum.

======================================

======================================

That strategy has been done to death here.

What strategy? I didn't write this to get hired by KnifeEdge; I wouldn't fit in,
because I wouldn't read this from the KnifeEdge point of view. I would read this from the customers point of view. Secondly, I would reply with the customers point of view in mind.

Are you saying that valid customer feedback is ignored even
if the feedback is overwhelming?
======================================

The point was; a game controller shouldn't be used limit the lifespan of the RealFlight G3.5 software.

If you UPGRADED from RealFlight G4.5 to RealFlight G5.5 then
your New RealFlight G5.5 controller would work in both softwares as expected.

As far as your controller not working, just contact tech support and get it fixed.

Tech Support States:

The G3.5, G4.5 and the G5.5 controllers will work the G5.5 software.

The controller that comes with the RealFlight G5.5 UPGRADE will
NOT WORK with the G3.5 software, period.

For more money, $60.00 plus the shipping cost of $15.00
for sending the old controller back; I could buy another
InterLink Plus.

I guess that I won't be socializing with my G3.5 friends
or revisiting the events.
======================================

Great , another inaccurate edoctoor rant on how much RF sucks and how everything does not work
couldn't ya just left it at please bring back the events or something like that?

I like to type; if you think this is ranting to should check out other forums... ;-)

Besides at this time all my opinions and beliefs are both accurate and true
for me, and thousands of others. Hence: jeffpn quote, "been done to death here."


It's been already said that the 3.5 servers will remain up until KE has said the servers are going to be taken down for 3.5 its just a rumor

Well that clears everything up, thanks :rolleyes:


Fix your controller

The update G5 controller isn't compatible with G3.5

There are NEVER patches for older versions

People that research this forum before they buy a RealFlight product; are
always impressed when you confirm that their fears are true... thanks.


The server does not stop people from stealing the software the controller does

The point was; a game server shouldn't be used limit the lifespan
of all RealFlight software.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is there a clause on page 167 in the G5.5 manual that states:

IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT THE LIST SERVER:
At the time of this writing we are providing the

List Server service on a trial basis.
This service may be modified, interrupted, or cancelled
at any time without notice.

In particular, we make no guarantee about the reliability of this service.

To use this service, you may need to obtain product updates.

Mention of the List Server in this manual on your RealFlight DVD
does not imply that this service will be available
at the time you purchase this product.

Moreover, we reserve the right to bar any individual user, or all users
at individual IP addresses or domains, from using the list server
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

======================================

But KE has made it clear (with rather unprecedented explanation) that they feel it's not worth the effort to redo the old events.

Hence; the term upgrade implies more; rather than less.
which contradicts the customers expectations.

======================================

[jeffpn]

Wow, KE would be so smart to listen to you! Careful, they might hire you. I can't believe that you're the one who knows how they can increase their "residual sales!" (You may want to do some research on that terminology. It doesn't apply to KE's products.) :rolleyes: But hey, keep on using that big terminology. You may fool somebody into thinking you know what you're talking about. I'm curious; did you think you were the first one to think that if you tell KE how they can increase sales, that they'd be fools not to give you what you want? That strategy has been done to death here.

[dhk79]

I too miss the events but they still work in G4, so I use that if I need to. Besides I seldom use mulit-player in the first place and even when flying solo, will use G4 over G5 unless there is a special feature in G5 that I want to access. Personally I do not like the editor in G5, it is too cartoonish for my taste. So I build all my aircraft in G4, then import to G5 (again if I need a G5 feature, like a pilot view)

As far as your controller not working, just contact tech support and get it fixed.

[edoctoor]

I loved the voice announcer that
made you feel like you were really at an event. ;-)

I too miss the events but they still work in G4
I upgrade from G3.5 to G5, POOF GONE

Awesome signature.

- Knowing why ten things will not work is more important than not knowing why one does.

[r1derbike]

Didn't like some aspects of every release, including G3. Didn't keep me from upgrading through G5+.

Was vocal about them, too. Bottom line; I always felt I got WAY more sim for my money than I paid, through upgrades.

Rob Peter, pay Paul. Gain some, lose some.

What ever the progression of software to fill the needs/wants of the many, will always leave people behind. Just the way it is.

Which leads me to refer back to the first sentence in the post...

Charles

[Maj. Numbskully]

Great , another inaccurate edoctoor rant on how much RF sucks and how everything does not work
couldn't ya just left it at please bring back the events or something like that?

It's been already said that the 3.5 servers will remain up until KE has said the servers are going to be taken down for 3.5 its just a rumor

Fix your controller

last I heard only 4.5 and the first G5 version require your parents to change port settings in the router
newer versions of G5 and any 5.5 version Don't Require port changes

There are NEVER patches for older versions even 4.5 and if there were I would hope it would be for other things like hitching etc. not just for events or to re-configure the controllers( is that even really necessary?)

The server does not stop people from stealing the software the controller does

Just because YOU are using a G5 controller in 3.5 MP other people will all of a sudden go get G5//5.5 ( and how would they know what type of link you're using ?)
not for any of the new features but just to use the G5 controller in an out dated version...ya right

Most folks don't use Internet explorer if its not working for you use something else that does
I could go on pointing out all of the inaccuracy's in his post ........but this reply would be as long as his rant so I'll spare the rest of you
besides the fact that any thing said (most of his post)that does not have any thing to do with the old events IS OFF TOPIC :eek:

[jeffpn]

Not for me... but for your sales.
Look at it this way...What a true spirit of extreme selflessness, altruism, and generosity. :rolleyes:

Look, if you want to generate interest in bringing back the old events, you've got an uphill climb. Go back and read post #8. Maybe start a new thread with a poll on whether people want the old events back. There is a growing segment of forum members (I won't say who they are, because it offends the kiddos) who will say yes to any idea, so you might get some support from them. But KE has made it clear (with rather unprecedented explanation) that they feel it's not worth the effort to redo the old events.

[mikeinde]

In an effort to get back on topic:

I still miss the old events. I am glad, however, that the new release will have some more appropriate enhancements (high-start, and aero-tow).

I understand why Knife Edge went the direction that they did with the combat/paintball stuff. I don't agree with it, but it is their company and product -- they have every right to take in the direction that they feel will maximize sales. As a software developer myself, I know that you can't please your entire user base. I can guarantee you that the folks at KE have put far more thought into this stuff than anybody on this forum.

That said, I still think that there must be a way to fit contests that are more appropriate to RC into the new event/competition engine. Paintball and combat are fun for some, but show me a example of this in the real RC world. The old events (especially dead stick/autorotation) had real-world RC application and made you a better pilot.

Sorry for repeating myself -- I just wanted to get the thread back on track.

[Maj. Numbskully]

on topic off topic ..............this is a dead topic
bottom line is that KE admins have already said that the old events are gone and won't be coming back
I tried to search for the thread where that was stated with no luck
but I definitely remember that even the admin who said that also said he himself hated to see them go



The point was; a game server shouldn't be used limit the lifespan
of all RealFlight software.
Your software works perfectly even with out a list server therefore it does not have a limited life span thats determined by weather or not there is a server for it

The reason the server MAY one day go away is that there is no longer anyone using it! (just like game servers for many other games have)
forget 3.5 for a minute
just look at 4.5's MP server when I've tried to log on there are no sessions and when I've hosted for hours it's just me and the crickets.............. I'm willing to bet that 3.5s is even more desolate
you stated /inferred that you have a G5 controller so you must have G5/5.5 right?..........so why do you even care about 3.5s server???? and why are you not joining G5 sessions instead I don't get it :confused: ?????

[mikeinde]

I think I remember the post you're referring to.

If I remember correctly, he didn't rule out the possibility of them returning.

I just want to remind the folks at KE that there are folks that miss the events.

Whether or not to implement them, is their decision.

Call me a squeaky wheel.

[Norton]

You should remember mikeinde, you started the thread almost a year ago.


Post #8 in this thread: http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24418

[Maj. Numbskully]

guess i couldn't see the forest through the trees :p .........thanks norton :D