"Stock" Heli piro rates issue.

[mwilson914]

I finally got my copy of G5 in the mail today and have only had a chance to fly the Dominion(s) and the Innovator. I'm concerned about the piro rate on the Dominion(s) as it's much too fast unmodified. I'll run through the other exp pack heli's as soon as possible but the Dominion(s) piro rate intensifies even more drastically when attempting piro-flips. The Dominion(s) on G5 react just as the T-REX 500 from Expansion pack 5 running on G4.5 (soon to sample G5). The T-REX 500 reacts horribly on every Realflight display at all the hobby stores I've tried (4 stores). The piro rates are too fast and piro flips are not possible at all to perform unless modified (hopefully.)

I've been searching the threads to find some support on this issue, but can't find a similar thread. Please point me in the right direction if this has been a topic already. For now I'm trying to modify the gyro settings, gear ratios, etc, but it's not working out as easy as the heli's modified in G4.5. If it turns out that this is an issue for all heli's I would hate to think every heli from all the add-on's and expansion packs need customized.

So, are there others experiencing the same thing? Is there a known bug and workaround?

As far as this heli issue, I've sampled everything else and I can get on multiplayer without a single issue. Install was smooth. Used the tool to carry all G4.5 aircraft and airports. Hopefully I can resolve my G5 heli issue since I'm a an avid rc heli guy in the physical world.

Thanks,

Matt

[mwilson914]

I'll start a list and modify as I go. This is the list of heli's so far that exhibit severely noticable piro issues.

--Dominion 3D
--Dominion 3D 90
--Dominion 3D 90 -- Flybarless
--Furion 450
--Raptor 90 SE (expansion pack 2)

[opjose]

Have you tried lessening the effectiveness and max pitch of the tail blades?

[mwilson914]

I've tooled with the Dominion a little tonight, but I just wanted to see if others were experiencing the same thing. I just didn't expect the heli's to react this way. I found some more that respond the same, and I've found other's that are comfortable. I'm just more curious more than anything why the heli's respond so differently than in G4.5.

The user edit's seem about the same between versions, so I haven't narrowed down just yet what parameter is read differently between stock models on G4.5 and G5. I've got a stomach bug setting in so no more playing on the sim tonight. Once I figure this out I'll follow up with the solution to my problem.

[mwilson914]

Have you tried lessening the effectiveness and max pitch of the tail blades?

I'm going try another edit with your suggestion from a clean slate, but I've got a good size list of heli's that need edited, which isn't cool. I can mod all these in time, but I just don't get why all these heli's worked great in G4.5 but are now uncontrollable in G5 trying to piro-flip. It's really got me scratching my head.

I just really want to know if others are experiencing the same thing I am. If this turns out to be an issue just on my system I'll freak out. LOL--in a nervous psychotic twitchy kind of "LOL." I know it can't be my PC because that doesn't make sense. Maybe too many people are playing combat to notice issues with the heli's. I'll just convert the ones I have issues with to fire guns and rockets and post them on the swaps. If I get a bunch of bad ratings for the piro issue I'll know then it's not just me. :) he he.

[Chris McVey]

The only number you need to change is in the gyro setting to adjust piro rate speed. In the editor it's under Head Holding gyro. Put the other settings back to stock and adjust this only.

[mwilson914]

That's what I strictly messed with yeserday and it didn't help me out. The piro rate is consistant when staying level in flight, but when performing piro-flips is when the problem really occurs.

However, I just got done messing with various other parameters and found an easier fix on the gyro about 1 minute ago.

I changed the control override from 50% to 0%

[mwilson914]

I just tweaked some more heli's and have decided to use 12% control override instead of 0%, and that seems like the perfect spot more or less. The only heli I was happy flying stock was the Heli-Max Axe 400 3D EP RTF and I just checked it's control override setting which turned out to be 0%.

So, my question is this: Is there maybe a software "bug" caused by just copying the .dck files from the G4.5 folder over to G5? Do the heli's seem to fly as expected when a fresh install of the expansion packs is performed over the copy and paste method?

This is the only thing I can think of which may have caused the issue I've been experiencing. People have been running G5 for a little while now and I saw this as too big a problem personally to go unnoticed within my first 30 seconds of flight. Maybe the control override settings aren't going to respond in the same way depending on how an individual installed the expansion pack files. I don't know, but at least I found a viable solution and I hope this helps anyone experiencing the same issue.

Regards,

Matt

[mwilson914]

The only number you need to change is in the gyro setting to adjust piro rate speed. In the editor it's under Head Holding gyro. Put the other settings back to stock and adjust this only.

I just looked at your screenshot again Chris and realized your control override is at 0%. My other 90 size heli's were all at 50%. My theory in my previous post doesn't make sense though because it was the stock Dominion which came with G5 that I first noticed the problem. Why is this control override at 50% on some heli's and at 0% on the others? The 50% makes the heli go out of control during piro-flips.

[opjose]

Interesting, you're really on to something here, and you've established where things need to be... nice job.

[td9cowboy]

Good job Matt. Chris is right, the rotation rate% controls the rate of the piro. A 360 degree setting there should give you one full revolution per second. 180 would give you one revolution in two seconds. 720 you get two revs/sec. If you are doing piroflips against the wall to maintain piro consistancy just find a number that is a comfortable rate for you. If you have helis that are tweaked for G4.5, I would write down the gyro settings and export the AV to my desktop. Then import it into G5. Check the settings to be sure they are the same. If they are and the piro rates have changed, I think KE may have tweaked the physics in G5. If they did we will all be tweaking for months. Good flying is all a matter of timing. If KE changes something that affects piro rates or roll rates across the board we are all screwed. We either adapt to all the new models or adapt all of them to us.

I've also been looking at the way KE is setting up their helis. I honestly never noticed that gain override% setting before but chris's capture was from G4.5 so I guess it was there. Real heading hold gyros are over ridden into rate mode every time you give it a rudder command. It locks back on and holds the heading again when it senses no rudder commands. You will notice the little light on the gyro that tells you it's in heading hold will go out any time you move the rudder stick. It could be that KE is using this setting to free the gyro in the same fashion. An explanation would be good. If I m right you surely wouldn't want to over ride the gyro at 50% rudder stick travel. That's the way the dominion behaves to me. I've got my CDT 450 and 500 set up at 3% and they seem to like it so far. The 500 has always had a great tail(thank you phrank and team) but it seems to take some of that kick back out the 450. I bet some of the model builders have experimented with this setting and know exactly how it functions.

[phrank]

According to this post, yes heli physics have been improved:
http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showpost.php?p=160125&postcount=19

That's interesting. In G4.5 some folks complained about weak tails.
Most recently this user:
http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24752

Now G5 comes with improved Heli Physics, now it's too strong. :confused: :confused:

Personally I think they feel just right.

[mwilson914]

According to this post, yes heli physics have been improved:
http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showpost.php?p=160125&postcount=19

That's interesting. In G4.5 some folks complained about weak tails.
Most recently this user:
http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24752

Now G5 comes with improved Heli Physics, now it's too strong. :confused: :confused:

Personally I think they feel just right.

The heli's in G5 that didn't have that setting set to 50% did feel more accurate, but the ones that were at 50% were far from reality during piro-flips. The piro rate would acellerate from 2.5 times a second to around 7 times a second during the piro-flip which is not how real life heli's are set up. The piro rate became too fast and disabled the heli from flipping no matter how fast you could move the collective input.

[td9cowboy]

I'm not piro flipping yet so I can't test that. The dominion 90s are quite fast on the piros. The piro rate is easily tweaked and no one could expect KE to select a perfect rate that would please everyone. The only problem I see it that the increase in speed isn't very linear with the stick input. It would be difficult to maintain a consistent speed unless you were against the wall of the gimbal. Other than that they do have them flying great. The tails are great. That flybarless 90 is awesome. It flys at 120mph on the flat like it's on rails. It's a hoot! I want one!

[12oclockhigh]

Thanks mwilson914... the piro flips are much improved with your suggestion.

I just don't know how you figured this out.

[mwilson914]

Thanks mwilson914... the piro flips are much improved with your suggestion.

I just don't know how you figured this out.

LOL. Luck!