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jeffpn
11-22-2011, 07:26 PM
First intriguing idea gets a custom model built!*

a4magic
11-22-2011, 07:29 PM
The Russian Flying tank!
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=russian+flying+tank&FORM=AWIR

Saw it on a wierd weapons show during the weekend on the history chanel.

brields
11-22-2011, 07:43 PM
The Russian Flying tank!
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=russian+flying+tank&FORM=AWIR

Saw it on a wierd weapons show during the weekend on the history chanel.

I can just picture the gunner shooting the cannon, causing the plane to flip over. :eek: :D :p

jeffpn
11-22-2011, 07:45 PM
Intrigue-o-meter is still at 0. :rolleyes:

abaser
11-22-2011, 07:47 PM
You know my situation, so info is limited, but hows this?

http://szvan88.en.made-in-china.com/product/veCmtLVOkjch/China-3D-Aerobatic-Flight-Flying-Dragon-R-3D-RC-Airplane-VAN-RCA-FDR3D-.html

Boof69
11-22-2011, 08:38 PM
How about this RC factory Yak-55 foamy. The wings are airfoiled and the motor mount and cowl are unique. I have a 3-view some pics and a Video build series (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1477568)

jeffpn
11-22-2011, 09:30 PM
Okay, I'm intrigued. I don't think the swaps have any Yaks, do they?

Boof69
11-22-2011, 09:33 PM
I'm sure there is one or two, but not his one. ;)

jeffpn
11-22-2011, 09:56 PM
What say you, Maj? Look good?

Boof69
11-22-2011, 10:01 PM
Improved 3-view.

Maj. Numbskully
11-22-2011, 10:03 PM
Yupper -Doddle there neighbor

jeffpn
11-22-2011, 10:04 PM
Neighbor? No, that's flexible!! :p

Boof69
11-22-2011, 10:24 PM
Let me know if you need more info. I don't own it but I will do research. ;)

jeffpn
11-22-2011, 10:30 PM
You're a good requestor, boof. Now don't bail on me!! Oh wait, I have your phone number!!

Maj. Numbskully
11-22-2011, 11:08 PM
are the grooves on the leading edge painted on?
or is the wing actually grooved?
easy bump if so
just need to know

Boof69
11-22-2011, 11:11 PM
It looks like paint to me. The paint is a bit battered in that pic but the painted on panel lines and rivets look cool.

Maj. Numbskully
11-22-2011, 11:15 PM
I agree
I think I could do a pretty good job of emulating the look ;)

Boof69
11-22-2011, 11:16 PM
It's kida your thing. ;)

jeffpn
11-22-2011, 11:22 PM
Yeah, Maj. Look! CHECKERS!!! :eek:

mwilson914
11-23-2011, 12:04 AM
What would be super awesome jeffpn is if u make a gee bee r2. U interested lol. :) :cool: :eek: :eek: :D :p :confused: :cool:

I like the cool guy with glasses smiley face. Sorry for the capital letters too cause my phone auto caps at the beginning of sentences. :cool: :cool:

Thx jeff. I can't wait to fly it.

jeffpn
11-23-2011, 08:07 PM
It's nice to have a fuse that's not gonna kick my arse! Here's a start.

abaser
11-23-2011, 08:36 PM
That's all you have? What's the holdup? :p

Boof69
11-23-2011, 08:37 PM
Don't forget to make the wings. :p

willsonman
11-23-2011, 08:42 PM
Yeah... try not to hurt yourself on this one :rolleyes:

flexible
11-23-2011, 09:16 PM
Cut the boy some slack, he is just trying to ease into this one.

jeffpn
11-24-2011, 11:14 AM
Here's a poly hog for you. The grill is around 1,00 triangles. I could redefine it, and lose a bunch without affecting the shape, I think. I only made 4 sections of the grill, and duplicated and rotated copies of sections into place. At the end, I welded the slices back together. Interestingly, I had problems with the center, and another weld fixed it.

Boof69
11-24-2011, 11:23 AM
Looks like the real thing. It's crazy that it took up so many polys. Carry on. :)

jeffpn
11-24-2011, 12:39 PM
I reduced the triangles from 1,152 to 784 just by manually deleting vertices. The only vertices I deleted where those interior vertices that don't define the shape. In other words, the vertices I deleted where not between faces at a right angle to each other. There's a few more vertices I could eliminate, if I need to later.

jeffpn
11-24-2011, 01:01 PM
Okay, now I'm down to 736 triangles. This is as far as I can go without affecting the shape.

abaser
11-24-2011, 01:07 PM
Not bad. Now, can you keep it under the c-mesh limit?

jeffpn
11-24-2011, 01:09 PM
Without servos and electronics? Absolutely! Wires are a poly hog.

Boof69
11-24-2011, 01:19 PM
Your doing wires and servos right?

jeffpn
11-24-2011, 01:28 PM
I think it's a must on a foamie. Going back to the McFoamy, I was floored at the detail Flex put into the model. This one will be the same.

jeffpn
11-24-2011, 02:20 PM
Up next: The wheel pants. On this day of Thanksgiving, I'm thankful it's just a profile!!

Boof69
11-24-2011, 02:28 PM
Coming along nicely. It feels weird being a requester.

jeffpn
11-24-2011, 02:29 PM
Yeah, I had to wonder about that. Abaser also gave me an idea that almost tipped me. At least you guys know how to request!!!

Boof69
11-24-2011, 02:33 PM
We've been trained. Do I get my treat now? :p

brields
11-25-2011, 12:22 AM
Jeff, can you create a gearless, hand launched version, please?

jeffpn
11-25-2011, 12:32 AM
Yeah. I'll need your email address when it's time. I won't post it that way. Remind me later. That's a couple/few weeks away.

brields
11-25-2011, 12:50 AM
Is it possible to include it in a zip file which is included in a PM?

Just curious.

jeffpn
11-25-2011, 12:52 AM
Attachments aren't possible in PMs. I'll just post it here in this thread.

jeffpn
11-25-2011, 12:16 PM
I'm beveling the aileron and wing, and because the aileron goes all the way to the wing tip, it's a bit more difficult. Usually, my pivot is placed on 1 edge that runs the length of the aileron, crossing no vertices. That's by design, because it makes pivot placement much easier. On this plane, the wing tip gets significantly smaller. The top of the wing tapers down toward the tip. Therefore, the top edge of the aileron where the pivot will be is not a straight line from end to end. I think the gap I have at the wing tip is probably to be expected. A hinge can't pivot on a curved line. Am I thinking right here? Look at the first 2 pictures to see what I mean. I think the gap at the wing tip is unavoidable, right? Incidentally, the wing/aileron bevel will allow for almost a 45 pivot without smashing into each other. With the huge aileron, that's probably more than enough.

Boof69
11-25-2011, 12:49 PM
I'm confused. The hinge line seems very straight in your second pic. Are you saying the wing tip taper is forcing the gap at the tip?

flexible
11-25-2011, 01:10 PM
Jeff, you are going to need to redo the bevel. That wing will not work with a top hing bevel, it will have to be center hinged. You can only use a top hinge bevel if the top of the wing is a stright line all the way to the end of the tip. Example, the Rookie, or 6mm flat foam foamies like I make. If the tapered wing had a flat end at the wing tip it would work, but not with the rounded tip.

Boof69
11-25-2011, 02:05 PM
The end of the wing is flat.

jeffpn
11-25-2011, 03:44 PM
The wing tip tapers down. It's not flat from root to tip. It is flat from root to about 90% to the tip, where the rings start. You could do a top hinge, if this was real, and just not extend the hinge to the tip. The whole hinge line would be perfectly straight. The question is, is that done in real life? When I get home, I'll post screenies of the aileron deflection. Somehow I ended up in Lexington, KY. I know it would work. Would it look right?

Boof69
11-25-2011, 05:03 PM
I watched all the build videos and the tip of the wing is flat and the hinge is straight. At one point he points the wing right at the camera and its top hinged all the way to the tip.

jeffpn
11-25-2011, 05:10 PM
That top view in the 3-view makes it look (to me) that it's tapered. I'll have to look into it again.

Boof69
11-25-2011, 06:00 PM
Look close at the second picture I uploaded in post #6.

jeffpn
11-25-2011, 06:09 PM
I guess I can get the shape by just cutting the leading edge tip corner off. That'd round it out.

brields
11-25-2011, 07:27 PM
Attachments aren't possible in PMs. I'll just post it here in this thread.

Cool. I'm sorry but I don't give out my Email on the internet.

jeffpn
11-26-2011, 08:54 AM
Is this better? :p While I was out last night, I was thinking of the best way to git 'r dun. I decided on just a simple cylinder, no extra edges, and I shortened or lengthened each edge to place the end vertex. Worked pretty well, and the hingeline is straight, because the shortest distance between 2 points (and that's all there are, just 2) is a straight line.

I'm currently at 4,106.

Boof69
11-26-2011, 10:07 AM
Right on. That's what it looks like in the build vids. Still nice and low on the poly count too.

jeffpn
11-26-2011, 10:11 AM
Now I get to do the controls and electronics. I hope I do it as well as flexible does. If only I actually owned an electric, I might know a little more about component location and wire routing.

Boof69
11-26-2011, 10:56 AM
Both the rudder and elevator are pull pull. The rudder servo is in the vertical fuse piece and the control horn is long enough to protrude from either side. The elevator servo is also in the vertical fuse piece and it comes out the left side of the fuse. They use a string as linkage.

jeffpn
11-26-2011, 11:34 AM
Not a bad ESC for someone who doesn't know what he's doing!

flexible
11-26-2011, 12:21 PM
Here is a FOAMIE KEVLAR PULL PULL. Set the pick up point to line up with the center of the hing line. The way I get that is to move the end of the link over to the hinge line/ adjust forward or back/ then move back out. Competition foamies use a very fine Kevlar line so it does not stretch.
This plus what I sent you yesterday will save you a lot of time.

jeffpn
11-26-2011, 12:53 PM
I'm a volunteer modeler, flex. I got all the time in the world!! Here's my battery. It's modeled after the same brand you put in the McFoamy.

jeffpn
11-26-2011, 02:46 PM
What's an appropriate receiver to use for this model? Would someone who knows what they're doing use this one? http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXYVD4&P=0 If so, how long is the antenna?

Boof69
11-26-2011, 02:55 PM
Light weight models like this would more than likely be using a micro reciever like this.

Boof69
11-26-2011, 03:01 PM
This is what I have in my mcfoamy.

jeffpn
11-26-2011, 03:02 PM
I figured micro receivers would be for those tiny little models. Or is mini smaller than micro? I need a bigger hobby budget!

Boof69
11-26-2011, 03:40 PM
Micro is smaller than mini, but My mcfoamy is the same size as the model your making and the receiver works great. It's four channel 2.4 ghz and has plenty of range.

flexible
11-26-2011, 05:43 PM
The FUTUBA micro here is in the zip I sent you, and is what I fly

jeffpn
11-27-2011, 09:57 AM
Before I start placing wires, is there any reason that my component placement wouldn't be where I have them? I haven't placed any servos yet.

td9cowboy
11-27-2011, 10:57 AM
Jeff, I'm not sure how this particular foamy is laid out but normally the battery is in a cutout so it can be centered over the CG side to side. As long as it is close to the same location fore and aft and the battery weight that they recommend is close, you should be fine.

jeffpn
11-27-2011, 04:41 PM
I'm starting to place wires now. As a nitro guy (and I'm not much into that either), I have little idea what's right here. How's this for a start?

brields
11-27-2011, 05:03 PM
I'm starting to place wires now. As a nitro guy (and I'm not much into that either), I have little idea what's right here. How's this for a start?

looks good.

Boof69
11-27-2011, 05:03 PM
Thats fine for the balance port. You need the other wires and terminal. There called JST plugs. A search for JST will turn up plenty of images If these aren't enough.

brields
11-27-2011, 05:04 PM
Just like a real R/C : one step at a time.

jeffpn
11-27-2011, 05:04 PM
Thats fine for the balance port. You need the other wires and terminal.
Key word ==> START ;)

Boof69
11-27-2011, 05:08 PM
Key word ==> START ;)
My bad.

jeffpn
11-27-2011, 05:18 PM
Thats fine for the balance port. You need the other wires and terminal. There called JST plugs. A search for JST will turn up plenty of images If these aren't enough.
The beauty of those plugs is that damn near a cube will suffice for the plug connection for both sides. I've been looking at flex's McFoamy stuff, and he actually modeled both sides. You can't see the hole of the one receptacle when the plug is in it!!

Boof69
11-27-2011, 05:57 PM
I wouldn't model anything that wouldn't be visible.

jeffpn
11-27-2011, 09:02 PM
I've connected my first 2 components, and the battery wires are done. The wires were just long enough to connect right inside the hole in the fuselage. ;)

uncle twist
11-27-2011, 09:16 PM
Whew, Boy howdy, that sure was close.Good thing you did`nt have to make an extension :D :D ;)

jeffpn
11-27-2011, 11:14 PM
I will have to do a Y-cable for my ailerons. Here's another wire for you. I had to trim 8" off of it!!!

jeffpn
11-28-2011, 07:23 AM
It looks like the aileron servo is in the wing sideways. Is this a pull pull setup, too? If so, that would result in a hole clear through the wing, right? How is a sideways servo secured in place? Does anyone have better pictures of what's going on here?

jeffpn
11-28-2011, 07:29 AM
Also, is the servo wire tucked into a slit in the wing? If so, how or where does it come out? What does it look like?

jeffpn
11-28-2011, 09:08 AM
Maj., I'll give you a piece of tape over the servo to color, like the Skywalker. Then you can draw wires in the wing, if needed. I'll model a loop of wire coming out at the root.

I'm only sitting around 9,500 or so polies right now.

Boof69
11-28-2011, 09:59 AM
The aileron servo is not pull pull. Its on it's side with a single sided horn. It's secured with Welders. Which is a contact cement. I don't recall from the videos how the servo wire is routed, but it more than likely sits in a straight cut and is covered with packing tape.

flexible
11-28-2011, 11:57 AM
They just left the wires hanging out the bottom. If I were doing it, I would use a piece of brass tubing to cut a hole from the center of the plane, out to the servo, so the wires would have been hidden. On this model, I would not show the aileron wires, anywhere but the plug, and I would show two sets of wires coming out of the plug, going into a hole in the wing near the fuse on one side. I use one drop of medium CA at each end of the servos to hold them in place. It takes very litle to hold them in, but you can still get them back out if you strip a gear, which happen once in a while.

phrank
11-28-2011, 02:53 PM
Please, do model that drop of CA on the plugs.
It would suck if that plug came lose in the middle of a blender. :D

flexible
11-28-2011, 03:03 PM
Do you want to borrow my glasses?
(I use one drop of medium CA at each end of the servos to hold them in place)
This reminds me of the time I was flying my supper rookie (80") wingspan. I just pulled up into a hover, when one of the wires going into the plug from the battery to the receaver, CAME UNPLUGED. No more super rookie!

phrank
11-28-2011, 03:06 PM
:p I get you Flex! :p
I think he better peel that price label off the prop too.
That will drastically affect RF6 physics performance.

jeffpn
11-28-2011, 03:07 PM
Okay, okay!! I'll glue the plugs in!! Sheesh!!

flexible
11-28-2011, 03:27 PM
No, you do not glue the plug in. And yes, I do remove the bar lable from the props with WD40.

jeffpn
11-28-2011, 04:26 PM
I'm so confuuuused!! :confused:

jeffpn
11-28-2011, 06:16 PM
Motor wires are done.

phrank
11-28-2011, 06:19 PM
Jeff,
Your stub antenna is too close to the ESC. That is going to cause you glitchy performance and range issues in-sim. tsk..tsk...:p

jeffpn
11-28-2011, 06:30 PM
Jeff,
Your stub antenna is too close to the ESC. That is going to cause you glitchy performance and range issues in-sim. tsk..tsk...:p
Not a problem. This plane is for hovering at the spawn position in MP sessions. It'll only need 12 feet of range. :p

jeffpn
11-28-2011, 06:44 PM
Better? :p

phrank
11-28-2011, 07:04 PM
Ummm.... :D I'm gonna cross that invisible line if I keep it up. :D

Actually, this might make a good feature request, force the virtual modelers to practice good real-world building skills.

jeffpn
11-28-2011, 07:13 PM
I'm thinking about putting my wireless servos in. That'll save a bunch of polies!! :D

td9cowboy
11-28-2011, 07:53 PM
Speaking of glitches, shouldn't any true to life sim have DSM2 brown outs right at the top of the flight failure list so you could watch your plane just fall out of the sky with no control whatsoever like we all see at the field? :D

phrank
11-28-2011, 07:55 PM
Not a bad idea either.
Flight failures based on vendor.
Chalk up another feature request, please.

Speaking of glitches, shouldn't any true to life sim have DSM2 brown outs right at the top of the flight failure list so you could watch your plane just fall out of the sky with no control whatsoever like we all see at the field? :D

jeffpn
11-28-2011, 07:59 PM
Flight failures based on vendor.
How'd you like to be the one answering phones at KE when that feature is implemented? "Jim, Horizon is on the line!! Again!!!"

td9cowboy
11-28-2011, 08:40 PM
How'd you like to be the one answering phones at KE when that feature is implemented? "Jim, Horizon is on the line!! Again!!!"
:D That's funny! :D At the field, every time I see someone get one out, I get this overwhelming urge to go to the truck after my hard hat. :eek: If we had that feature on the sim, I could get the same adrenalin rush right here in the lazy boy. :D

jeffpn
11-28-2011, 08:42 PM
I was just discussing my aileron servo situation with a local expert, and he suggested just modeling the servo arms, and having the Maj. draw them in. I did model the slit.

Boof69
11-28-2011, 09:22 PM
You could also raise a servo shape out of the wing a bit too.

flexible
11-28-2011, 09:23 PM
Why don't you just add a foot note: real world model uses servos! That will save you all the effort.

jeffpn
11-28-2011, 09:25 PM
You could also raise a servo shape out of the wing a bit too.
Is that kind of like bump mapping? ;)

Boof69
11-28-2011, 09:29 PM
Yes or actual modelling.

Maj. Numbskully
11-28-2011, 10:31 PM
having the Maj. draw them in.
Always passing the buck :rolleyes:

I did model the slit.
I bet you misspelled that last word .........eh?
:p :p

phrank
11-28-2011, 10:32 PM
See? I told you. :p

jeffpn
11-28-2011, 10:40 PM
Okay! Will this do?

uncle twist
11-29-2011, 12:07 AM
I had to look at that pic. about fore times to make up my minde.The servo is the wright size. the wing just has to be a littel bitt biggerer. Yessery thats it alrighty Butte the arm thingy has two be longerer two,Yup,and it kood use a wholle in the servo arm thingy two, that gos to the thing on the winge to make it (the arplane)"TWIST " :D :D. gladde tow help :D :D ;)

jeffpn
11-29-2011, 12:09 AM
UT, you sound like andy29847!! Bigger. Groan!!

So I'm showing my wife my beautiful splice here. You know what she says? "Now who's gonna notice that?" Another groan!!

td9cowboy
11-29-2011, 12:22 AM
UT, you sound like andy29847!! Bigger. Groan!!

So I'm showing my wife my beautiful splice here. You know what she says? "Now who's gonna notice that?" Another groan!!
Cool Jeff!! You just invented the very first T cable. Tip: Always agree with the wife, no matter what she says. ;)

Maj. Numbskully
11-29-2011, 12:25 AM
"Now who's gonna notice that?" Another groan!!
LOL
been there !.........heard that ! :rolleyes:
:p

td9cowboy
11-29-2011, 12:44 AM
I bet if you showed her one of these http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/servo-y-cable.html She'd really be impressed. :cool: She knew immediately that that wasn't a proper splice and like all wives do, she didn't want to hurt your delicate feelings and bruise your fragile ego so she minimized this huge oversight all the time hoping no one else would notice. Be sure to let her know that we ALL noticed this huge issue that will forever be documented here in the archives of the KE forum and be remembered for decades to come by anyone doing a search on splice, T cable, or Y cable. This is very serious stuff and she needs to stop killing you with kindness! In fact she needs to increase her oversight of your activities here so that something of this magnitude never happens again! So Jeff, no more screen shots without first being approved by her! LOL

uncle twist
11-29-2011, 01:01 AM
Jeff, I think you missed my sarcasm. I could be wrong, but the servo looks to big, as well as the servo arm.Just my opinion though. A reduction in size, of lets say 20/30% might be more scale to the plane ?? I DON`T WANT TO SEE ANDY SCALE THE PLANE TO THE SERVO :D :D :D :D :D
Your splice looks fantastic. I notice things like that ;) :D Groan :D

jeffpn
11-29-2011, 07:20 AM
Now td9, you know I'm too cheap to spend money on a Y-cable, when I have all the necessary parts lying around here to make my own!!

And yes, UT, your sarcasm made a direct hit. I thought I returned fire, but I must have missed. ;)

flexible
11-29-2011, 08:49 AM
The most obvious remedy for the two wing servos, is a 6 ch. Receiver, just keeping it real.

jeffpn
11-29-2011, 08:59 AM
I know, but the 6-channel was out of my price range. Somebody donated his old 4-channel receiver. He said something about upgrading his virtual receiver because he didn't have a Y-cable.

jeffpn
11-29-2011, 09:37 PM
Is this any better? :p

td9cowboy
11-29-2011, 10:26 PM
Much better! I bet you got a big hug and lots of praise from the wife when she saw this one. :D

jeffpn
11-29-2011, 10:29 PM
Yes I did!! Did she get back home to you yet? :eek:

td9cowboy
11-29-2011, 10:38 PM
Careful, who you show off your modeling skills to. You know you modelers are chick magnets. ;)

Maj. Numbskully
11-29-2011, 11:47 PM
ya............RealFreak Sex....errr Six
:p :p

td9cowboy
11-30-2011, 12:38 AM
As you already know Maj. the same applies to CSers. Please practice your craft responsibly. :D

uncle twist
11-30-2011, 12:45 AM
And yes, UT, your sarcasm made a direct hit. I thought I returned fire, but I must have missed. ;)[/QUOTE]

"Must have been a"bow shot"

uncle twist
11-30-2011, 01:00 AM
Well, it seems I have to learn the quote function a little better than I currently know how

Maj. Numbskully
11-30-2011, 01:18 AM
As you already know Maj. the same applies to CSers. Please practice your craft responsibly. :D
guess that gives "Fly it like it was made out of rubber" a whole new meaning

:p :p

td9cowboy
11-30-2011, 01:29 AM
:D LOL :D

Thanks Maj. It's going to take me a little while to unpaint that mental picture :eek:

jeffpn
11-30-2011, 05:15 PM
Flexible, is there a reason that the elevator servo is not inline with the hstab? It's lower. Why? Is there anything wrong with centering the servo to the hstab, placing it on (in) the horizontal fuse part?

flexible
11-30-2011, 06:11 PM
Pull pulls got there start in pattern planes, so they could get a very precise controll. Back when that all got started, there were no Digital servos. If I were doing this plane, I would use linkage, with a Digital servos. However If you chose to use the pull pull, I would center it on the surface every time, or not use a pull pull!

Boof69
11-30-2011, 08:03 PM
This plane comes standard with pull pull. So please do pull pull Jeff. :)

jeffpn
11-30-2011, 08:35 PM
I already told you I would, Boof. ;) I've got the tail servos and control horns placed, and the hole in the fuse for the rudder servo. Only aileron control horns, linkages, and tail servo wires to go. I think I'm at 10,612.

a4magic
11-30-2011, 08:42 PM
What is the max number of polys?
(Stupid Question)

abaser
11-30-2011, 08:45 PM
20,000including 1500 for the C mesh.

phrank
11-30-2011, 08:46 PM
What is a C mesh? ;)

Boof69
11-30-2011, 08:53 PM
I already told you I would, Boof. ;) I've got the tail servos and control horns placed, and the hole in the fuse for the rudder servo. Only aileron control horns, linkages, and tail servo wires to go. I think I'm at 10,612.
Respectable number for this one I think. These foamies eat some polys up as far as I've seen with other builds. Keep on keepin' on. :cool:

abaser
11-30-2011, 08:53 PM
Oops, my bad! Collision mesh ;)

jeffpn
12-02-2011, 07:02 PM
I have the wiring done. The only things left on the visual model are the linkages between each servo and it's control horn. 13,017.

Boof69
12-02-2011, 07:08 PM
Very nice. Great job on the wires. Can't wait!

jeffpn
12-03-2011, 05:16 PM
Does anybody have some good close-up shots of a pull pull setup? I'd like to see how the thread attaches at both ends.

Boof69
12-03-2011, 05:41 PM
They're attached with a surgeon's knot.

jeffpn
12-03-2011, 05:44 PM
Huh? it's not two strings. It's one string and a clevis, or a string to a control horn.

Boof69
12-03-2011, 06:13 PM
Its a string and a control horn with a single string surgeons knot.

Norton
12-03-2011, 06:30 PM
These might help, I'd take a pic of my Ultimate's tail but I'm not near it at the moment.

brields
12-05-2011, 05:20 PM
They're attached with a surgeon's knot.

Are we bringing Boy Scouts into realflight?

Boof69
12-05-2011, 05:22 PM
Apparently knot. We're bringing Surgeons. :)

abaser
12-05-2011, 05:28 PM
Are we bringing Boy Scouts into realflight?
What do you mean bringing? This place is overrun with them already :p

brields
12-05-2011, 05:53 PM
Nah FORMER Boy Scouts maybe, but not Boy Scouts.

Boof69
12-05-2011, 06:09 PM
Actually Jeff You could probably model a clinch knot if you wanted. It's most commonly used for tying on fishing hooks. Noone will ever see it, but....

jeffpn
12-05-2011, 06:11 PM
I already told you how I'm going to do it. I was just curious to see what would be involved in modeling a knot. I knew up front it'd be too many polies to use.

flexible
12-05-2011, 06:27 PM
I just happend to have one laying around. I made this for the x braceiing on the F22.

jeffpn
12-06-2011, 08:43 PM
Main modeling is done. 14,329 on the polies. I have to do the CMesh still. Mapping will be very straightforward.

jeffpn
12-11-2011, 09:58 AM
CMesh and all modeling are done. I have to assign my baked in materials, and map it. 15,895 polies.

jeffpn
12-12-2011, 05:19 PM
Sorry about the stretching here, Maj. You know how those round objects can be! :o

Maj. Numbskully
12-12-2011, 05:27 PM
Nice ;)
you have no idea how happy I am to see that :D
sniff sniff ..thats my boy !

jeffpn
12-13-2011, 08:59 PM
She's green!!

Maj. Numbskully
12-15-2011, 08:38 PM
I'm seeing more than one Scheme
Do you or the requester have a druthers..I don't

jeffpn
12-15-2011, 09:11 PM
I have no preference. It's up to Boof. I also have to send you a new EA. Overwrite the model and the physics.

Boof69
12-15-2011, 09:21 PM
I have no real preference other than maybe that it be a custom paint job. With an appropriate foam texture. So in other words it's up to you Maj.

flexible
12-16-2011, 03:10 PM
Post #82
http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showthread.php?p=209921#post209921
EPP texture tga

Maj. Numbskully
12-16-2011, 03:16 PM
got it........... thanks flex

flexible
12-16-2011, 03:40 PM
I should have shown you the EPP sheets when you were over. I am not sure, but I think the sheet are swan to thickness, while the other parts are ether, ejection molded, or hot wire cut.
On that plane the sheets are like what I use, so there are air holes all in the surface, while the wing I am not sure what method us uses. I have met him several times at local fly ins, and I think he live North of us, not to far away. If he is making the wings in his shop, he would hot wire cut them, which closes up some of the holes, so there would be two EPP looks on this plane.

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 11:29 AM
I've got a real head scratcher here. I set up the symmetrical movable pod for the aileron servo arms like I always do, under the wing. Usually, the assigned component is blank, until I assign it to the left and right aileron servo arms. This time, the ailerons were automatically assigned for the components. I changed the assignment to the left and right aileron servo arms. That also changed the main aileron component to the servo arms, instead of the aileron. I've never seen anything like this. I don't see any difference in hierarchy between this model and other models I've done. I cannot get the servo arms to rotate. You can see the Max hierarchy in the visual. I always assign the pods under the component they are parented to in Max. I have no idea what I'm doing differently. Any suggestions? I unparented all wing components in Max, and reparented.

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 12:00 PM
I opened the file back up, deleted the movable pod and replaced it. Now it's working as expected. I have no idea what happened. I deleted and replaced a couple times, without it being fixed.

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 12:27 PM
And, the problem is back.

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 12:33 PM
Delete the pod, reinstall it, problem is gone. Shut down RF, open it back up, and my aileron definition is gone, and replaced with a default. It's not even called 'Aileron.' It's called 'control Surface.' This is one goofy problem.

Boof69
12-17-2011, 12:52 PM
What model did you import as?

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 12:53 PM
The stock Extra 300, same one that has v-pitch, but not that one.

Boof69
12-17-2011, 12:54 PM
Did you delete all of the parts included, or morph it to your model?

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 12:55 PM
I've never deleted parts. I always morph it. I've done a few models now with servos, and this one has me scratching my head.

Boof69
12-17-2011, 01:06 PM
I always do the opposite. I delete all the parts and start fresh. Maybe you could try deleting the wings and build back from there.

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 01:10 PM
Okay, this is repeatable. I start from scratch. Add the movable pod to the wing. The ailerons are pre-assigned to the pod. I delete the movable pod, and re-add it. No objects are assigned, so I select the aileron servo arms. I positioned them, although I suspect that's not important. I save the edit, and the view shifts slightly, as the selected paramater is unselected. If I look at the aileron, I get this. A couple seconds later, I get the 'Unxpected error has occurred...' error, and a few seconds after that, RF shuts down without me clicking yes or no to send an error report. The next time i open up RF, the aileron is gone, replaced by a default Control Surface.'

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 01:11 PM
I always do the opposite. I delete all the parts and start fresh. Maybe you could try deleting the wings and build back from there.
I've never had to before.

Boof69
12-17-2011, 01:16 PM
Well I know that but you may even need to reimport. Send it to me for a second opinion. If it works for me Maybe a rfx import will move you past the problem. I would report it. I noticed other bugs in the editor.

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 01:19 PM
I've reimported my .kex, I've reimported my EA file. I've reimported my AV file to get my base physics back. Nothing seems to work.

Boof69
12-17-2011, 01:25 PM
Well if you need an extra hand let me know. I'm at the computer all day today.

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 01:39 PM
Well if you need an extra hand let me know. I'm at the computer all day today.
Oh, TODAY you are!! :p.

I just tried deleting everything, and starting over. This time I based the model on the Sbach from EP8. I added the servo arms, and it worked correctly the first time. I'm guessing that KE has a learning curve just like we do. That Extra 300 I initially used is one of their oldest models on RF6. I hope I can get it flying as well as it was flying the first time.

Boof69
12-17-2011, 01:41 PM
Doug suggests starting from scratch in his guide to physics tutorial. It seamed logical to me and now it's working for you.

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 01:48 PM
I've never deleted every component. I think it's the engineer in Doug that suggests that. Even with the new import, I kept it's components, and it seems to be working now.

I did have problems when I did my AG-14. I tried to base it on KE's P-38, since it had a twin boom setup. That crashed immediately. The P-38 is an old KE model, too. I've never had one crash like this time, after the flight physics were done.

Boof69
12-17-2011, 01:54 PM
I didn't know that you were that far in. I thought because you are setting up ailerons that you just started. That's a bug for sure then.

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 02:16 PM
I had the flight physics entirely done. I just started the animation physics today. The good news is I don't think it will error out this time.

Maj. Numbskully
12-17-2011, 02:26 PM
I think I have the texture , _n and _s tgas dialed in ......what do you think?

I know we discussed the edge pieces and paint bleed over into those areas

Guess we could live with the tail feathers and wing edge texture distortion
but the stretching is very noticeable on the horz. fuse piece where the hardware /electronics are located .... if you dont want to do all of them , maybe just do those if possible as they will all be a solid color
if you do all of them
I'd have to paint the appropriate edges areas to match its top and /or bottom surfaces.........
more work but I'm willing to do it (of course that means no stacking)

there seems to be enough room on the top , bottom and left side of the map to fit them in

doing it or not doing it is up to you

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 02:47 PM
I can remap the hfuse to give you independent side pieces. That will change the existing hfuse, too. I'll put the main piece where the hfuse is now, and the side pieces on an empty area. I'm about to get busy today with the inlaws, so it'll be a day or two.

Maj. Numbskully
12-17-2011, 02:50 PM
Take your time ..... and have fun
and remember to talk her into skydiving......remember........... be convincing !
:p :p


@ flexible .As the Aile servos are set in to the epp
would you see some shading maybe even a little distortion on the top side where they are?
how does the grain size look for a 3'4" wing span model ? ....think is looks right?

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 04:41 PM
You probably are anyway, but you might as well move forward on the CS. That way you may get to something else you need changed. I'll kee everthing else where it is unless you need something else remapped.

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 04:59 PM
I have the sides at the bottom of the .tga. I haven't run it through Max yet. I'm trying to figure out how to get my MIL to forget her parachute!!

Maj. Numbskully
12-17-2011, 05:19 PM
Take a lesson from the Road Runner ..............and just bring a back pack
:p :p :rolleyes:

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 05:46 PM
Check email, Maj. Not you, Steve!! :p

Maj. Numbskully
12-17-2011, 06:02 PM
OK.........since this bird seems to come with a variety of CS choices
I think this time around I will make a painted default CS
and also post one with just the Texture , electronics labels and both normals files
that way It'll be easier for an end user to make their own
I'll put the RC factory logo in the border so they'll have that to place anywhere they want also

I'm kinda curious what other folks will come up with :D

brentg
12-17-2011, 06:28 PM
Okay, this is repeatable. I start from scratch. Add the movable pod to the wing. The ailerons are pre-assigned to the pod. I delete the movable pod, and re-add it. No objects are assigned, so I select the aileron servo arms. I positioned them, although I suspect that's not important. I save the edit, and the view shifts slightly, as the selected paramater is unselected. If I look at the aileron, I get this. A couple seconds later, I get the 'Unxpected error has occurred...' error, and a few seconds after that, RF shuts down without me clicking yes or no to send an error report. The next time i open up RF, the aileron is gone, replaced by a default Control Surface.'

I had this happen before, one was a spelling error on a ~CS object. other was trying child a pod under a control surface in the editor that did not match the 3ds's hierarchy, I just child a pod under the ~CS_RMW or whatever side or under the vert stab or horz stab in the 3ds software, if i am understanding what you are doing here. I aslo use caps on all the ~CS_OBJECTS dont know if this makes a difference but its how i understood the designer pdf.

It really puts a bad taste in your mouth after you spend so long doing the physics setup and have it crash flat on it's behind and come back and all is gone...I feel your pain..

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 06:31 PM
The problem is due to basing the physics on the FlatOut Extra 300S. I reimported the same .kex under the SBach from EP8, and I was able to define the servo animation. I had an issue basing my AG14 on the P-38 Lightning, too. Use another model, and the same thing works. Try putting a movable pod in an aircraft based on that Extra 300. I bet you get weird problems, too.

The worst part is having to redo the flight physics that I already had done. Oh well, life goes on.

brentg
12-17-2011, 06:43 PM
Come to think about it, I had problems with the p-38 when I used it importing my G1 Fokker, nothing but problems, had to do it from scratch... hope you get it figured out.

jeffpn
12-17-2011, 06:50 PM
I did. I reimported, basing it on the SBach from EP8. All is well now.

jeffpn
12-18-2011, 10:23 AM
Waddya think, Maj.?

Boof69
12-18-2011, 12:14 PM
If you asked me I would say I like it. :)

brields
12-18-2011, 04:10 PM
Waddya think, Maj.?

Hehay! Finally! Its the multiplayer online Default replacement Airplane! :D

Just a suggestion, make the lights white, and visible during the daytime?

jeffpn
12-18-2011, 04:11 PM
You're brields, not Maj. :rolleyes:

Boof69
12-18-2011, 04:27 PM
It's my request! :eek: :D

jeffpn
12-18-2011, 04:29 PM
Yer good, boof. ;)

Maj. Numbskully
12-18-2011, 07:40 PM
cool......maybe when I'm done you can color coordinate the lights to match the scheme :confused:

jeffpn
12-18-2011, 08:12 PM
I was wondering about that. Then I thought, "It'd be dark. You can't really see the colors of the scheme. I'd buy the cheapest lights I could find, even if they are purple and yellow!"

We'll color coordinate, not a problem.

Maj. Numbskully
12-18-2011, 08:17 PM
The default Scheme will be the orange , black and white one with the checkerboards
however I have no clue as to what the bottom is supposed to look like :confused:

The one I'm posting with just the texture, labels, RC factory logo and normals files for others to paint is done :D

Maj. Numbskully
12-19-2011, 11:25 PM
Progress so far........ aligning and sizing the checks is a Be-otch :eek: :p
still not there , but close

jeffpn
12-19-2011, 11:28 PM
Looks nice. Who modeled the truck it's sitting on? :p

Boof69
12-19-2011, 11:29 PM
It's looking very good. I dig how the CS starts to bring the whole thing together.

Maj. Numbskully
12-19-2011, 11:36 PM
What you're seeing is the raw colors ... each color on a diff. layer hiding the texture under neath

When done I'll use them as an overlay selection map to tint the texture so it'll look
even better :D

Maj. Numbskully
12-19-2011, 11:38 PM
boof................... do you know what the bottom looks like???

Boof69
12-19-2011, 11:39 PM
No sir but I will see what I can find and get back with ya.

Maj. Numbskully
12-19-2011, 11:40 PM
Cool :D

Boof69
12-20-2011, 12:13 AM
I know this is a ridiculous picture. It's a screenie from a video I found. The earlier models where white only on the bottom but apparently this is the newer paint job which is just black stripes running front to back. Two groupings of two per wing and aileron on the thirds. One group of two bifurcating the each horizontal stab and elevator. It's the only change to the original CS.

Maj. Numbskully
12-20-2011, 12:15 AM
Thanks thats what I'll do then ;) :D

Boof69
12-20-2011, 12:17 AM
Sorry I couldn't find better but it does seem like a simple detail. Cool.

Boof69
12-20-2011, 12:24 AM
Ok here is a better pic of the bottom. It took some diggin. It's not the same as the other one. This one looks factory though.

flexible
12-20-2011, 06:56 AM
That is not factory paint, notice the over-spray in the hinge line. I think the factory is using laser jet printing. The bottom stripes are not the same color as the rest. The factory checker board corners are to good not to be laser. The bottom stripes are both home made.
Laser jet paint on EPP is not crisp, it looks watered down.

td9cowboy
12-20-2011, 08:13 AM
Post 10 has a bottom view.

Maj. Numbskully
12-20-2011, 08:16 AM
Thanks but
It's not the same scheme.
I know.............its early I need my coffee too ..........how come when you have a chance to sleep in ..you CAN'T ? :(

td9cowboy
12-20-2011, 08:23 AM
He He Guess I wasn't paying attention to that minor detail. ;)

Maj. Numbskully
12-20-2011, 08:36 AM
Boof thanks for that
Now that I can see that the checks on the bottom of the cowl are smaller , It makes sense why I could not line them up and have everything sized correctly ,I had all squares the same size all the way around...........

figures the one time I can get everything perfectly symmetrical on a curved surface ........they're not supposed to be :rolleyes:

flex you're confusing me , first you say the checks are to sharp not to be laser but then you say laser jet print looks watered down
So by "crisp" I take it you don't mean sharpness of line
but Color Saturation (color intensity) correct?
If you're talking about my CS the color will look more "Watered down " when I'm done

I'd like to make it with a factory Scheme
I have to say flex REALLY knows about working on EPP in the RW , trust me I've been in his shop ! ..... so I value his opinion
and have to say by looking at he bottom there is a difference in the shade of black on the stripes
where as the rest of the black is consistently the same shade every where else on the Scheme
but
Since this is your request boof ......... stripes or no stripes ?

flexible
12-20-2011, 09:14 AM
There are four good ways to apply color to foam models; HVLP and Stengel like I use, air brush for one off schemes, laser jet printing like I be leave they used, and silk screen, which needs a flat surface. A laser jet is very precise where colors come together. Laser jet ink is much thicker when applied but all ways comes out looking faded, with one coat, and two coats are cost prohibitive. My HVLP SCs use 4 to 6 coats of paint.

Maj. Numbskully
12-20-2011, 09:24 AM
When held or flown and seen backlit would you see the paint on top slightly through the EPP ?

like shading I mean


also flex when you fly one outdoors and it gets backlit by the sun does the EPP look "Luminescent"

If so think we could add alpha and adjust it just enough to try to make it look like that jeff?

Boof69
12-20-2011, 09:31 AM
I see what flex is saying. I liked the stripes in the video screenie better anyways. Lets go with that.

jeffpn
12-20-2011, 09:37 AM
Tell me where you want alpha, and I'll do it. That way you can experiment.

Maj. Numbskully
12-20-2011, 10:02 AM
Tell me where you want alpha, and I'll do it. That way you can experiment.
everywhere ! :p

Maj. Numbskully
12-20-2011, 10:04 AM
I'll have to look at both screeny again but
Whats the difference between the stripes in the video and that screeny ?......looked the same to me :confused:
EDIT: I see it now .....I need more coffee, sorry :p :p

okay ......I'll even try for the over spray ! ;) :p

flexible
12-20-2011, 11:58 AM
The air foll shaped wing is to thick for the paint to show through, and the laser printing is too thin to show through.
Notice on my plane you can see through the stab but not the wing. that is because the less dense EPP on the stab, the # of air bubbles, and 5 coats of paint.

Maj. Numbskully
12-20-2011, 01:10 PM
Thats why I asked I thought I remember noticing that
when I was over at your place
how about outdoors and back lit
the epp glows a little for lack of a better term ....luminescent is maybe a better term

flexible
12-20-2011, 01:16 PM
The laser jet painted planes are so faded that they don't seam to change in the sun. My planes with 5 or 6 coats of paint seam to pop out at you in the sun.

Maj. Numbskully
12-20-2011, 01:26 PM
ok but I'm taking about the EPP itself
Say you had one with no paint at all

If you hold it over your head out side with the sun directly behind it does it look like its lighter(See sun liight coming through) or is it opaque enough to not make a difference
like when its sitting on the ground ...know what I mean?
I would think if you could see paint on the other side of the horz stab sitting on a table that you could should be able to see light coming through when back lit by something as bright as the sun , even on a thicker part like the wings
I mean EPP is not like styro
very thin shavings of it look actually look milkey clear ............don't they

flexible
12-20-2011, 01:46 PM
I know where you are going, don't go there, there are no people there, hehe.
In the bright light, on something that small, the light that might show through, is flooded by the bright sun. If you held it up so it blocked the sun, you might get some of that effect, but you would never get that effect while flying, because of the flooding effect of the son.

Maj. Numbskully
12-20-2011, 02:14 PM
ok thanks
that makes sense now that you put it that way :D

Maj. Numbskully
12-20-2011, 10:08 PM
Today's progress
I'm having a hard time finding the serif font for the "Yak 55" on the wings It's not quite the same as the web address font on the fuse , I found that one obviously
I may have to take 2-3 different ones that I found and make/piece together my my own for the wings................wouldn't be the first time :rolleyes:

Boof69
12-20-2011, 10:26 PM
Will this help?

Mikeymike21
12-20-2011, 10:56 PM
Today's progress
I'm having a hard time finding the serif font for the "Yak 55" on the wings It's not quite the same as the web address font on the fuse , I found that one obviously
I may have to take 2-3 different ones that I found and make/piece together my my own for the wings................wouldn't be the first time :rolleyes:
You can get the Yak cs photo and erase everything around the yak55 text, redo the colors and copy and paste it to the tga file.

Maj. Numbskully
12-21-2011, 12:02 AM
It'll still need some tweaking but its a head start thanks boof

Thanks for the mini tut mikey :rolleyes:

Mikeymike21
12-21-2011, 12:34 AM
It'll still need some tweaking but its a head start thanks boof

Thanks for the mini tut mikey :rolleyes:
Only trying to help. -__-

Boof69
12-21-2011, 12:34 AM
I know it's not great. I was being rushed to leave the house and I wanted to get that done before I left. It is directly extracted from a picture of the wing. If anything you could retrace it with the pen tool or something-n-stuff. ;)

Madratter
12-21-2011, 03:17 PM
I have to say, I am really looking forward to this plane when it comes out. Sweet job so far. :D

jeffpn
12-21-2011, 06:59 PM
Here's a trial version of the Yak to play with. Let me know what you think, anyone. Like all my trial versions, it cannot be painted. This is to evaluate physics, primarily, and maybe 3D issues.

flexible
12-21-2011, 07:11 PM
not even

jeffpn
12-21-2011, 07:17 PM
I'm pretty sure you were determined to have that opinion before you tried it. Next!!

flexible
12-21-2011, 09:48 PM
You are sooooo wrong.I did try to fly it. It flys like. No it flys as if it were made of plywood. You who has never owned a foamie, thinks I don't know, or that I have an agenda.
You do not get it. Foamies get 75% of there lift from Prop wash. No prop wash means no lift, which means it will blow big time. No amount of pulling rabbits, out of you're ass will fix no prop wash. It would be like trying to fly in real world, a foamie with a 3" prop instead of a 8" prop. Prop wash affects ever part of foamie flying. "A man should always know his limitations!"

jeffpn
12-21-2011, 09:56 PM
Flex, I have no doubt about your real world RC expertise. What I did with the plane is fun for me to fly. Accurate? I have no idea. But fun. That's why I posted it. I still have to wonder about your bias. I know you feel very strongly about prop wash effects in RF6. I am in no position to debate with you, having no experience in foamies. I am confident that KE will do what it takes, if anything, to make prop wash have the proper effect on foamies and other planes. I'd still like to hear from others.

flexible
12-21-2011, 10:53 PM
Here is a sample of my credentials, where are you'res?
Bias, I have given you proof, yet you refuse to see the truth. What must be done, to cause the scales to fall off, so you can see clearly. Foolish man, even the blind can see clearly.

jeffpn
12-21-2011, 11:07 PM
Apparently I can't open a .doc file. You don't need to tell me your credentials. I already told you I don't doubt your real world expertise. I know you know your stuff. My credentials are in my last post. You need to be having this discussion with Jim. If there's something he can do to fix the sim, he'll do it. You know that.

I'm sure prop wash affects all aircraft. I don't see how it would have more effect on one type of plane than another, disregarding weights, etc., that would be in the editor anyway. I remember you talking about the effect of prop wash on the inner vs. outer wing. That would have to apply to any aircraft, not just foamies. Prop wash is prop wash. Obviously a lighter aircraft would respond to prop wash more than a heavier acraft would. But that would be determined by the weight of the aircraft, which is a part of the AV file, I would think. If there's a problem in the physics engine, KE will fix it. Jim's already called Mikey out. I think it's your turn to talk to him.

flexible
12-21-2011, 11:44 PM
It is you're lack of real world foamie experiences that is getting in the way of you getting up to speed on this issue. It is not about weight. Larger wood planes flying at speed have air flow over the wings giving them lift, see where I am going. Foamies fly very slow, from about 4 or 5 mph, up to 10 or so mph. Prop wash is every thing, you have no lift, no control without it. The fact that the yak has an air foil wing, does not change the fact that it fly's very slow. Very little air flow over the control surfaces, very little lift. In the past I have had to turn the lift up to near 200% to even get close to real world flying, but the new environment, which I like, changed every thing. The prop wash just does not cut it in this environment.
It is hurting large 3d planes, 3d foamies and even hellies. If you are useing the wrong prop wash model, there is No way to get real world flying. That is the point of Real Flight, is it not.

opjose
12-21-2011, 11:53 PM
It is you're lack of real world foamie experiences that is getting in the way of you getting up to speed on this issue. It is not about weight. Larger wood planes flying at speed have air flow over the wings giving them lift, see where I am going. Foamies fly very slow, from about 4 or 5 mph, up to 10 or so mph. Prop wash is every thing, you have no lift, no control without it. The fact that the yak has an air foil wing, does not change the fact that it fly's very slow. Very little air flow over the control surfaces, very little lift. In the past I have had to turn the lift up to near 200% to even get close to real world flying, but the new environment, which I like, changed every thing. The prop wash just does not cut it in this environment.
It is hurting large 3d planes, 3d foamies and even hellies. If you are useing the wrong prop wash model, there is No way to get real world flying. That is the point of Real Flight, is it not.

THERE IS NO SPOON!

Flexible IMHO I side with your observations about prop wash/torque roll EFFECTS on the planes in the sim.

However as I posted in the other thread, you CANNOT go by what you see with the smoke.

Smoke is merely eye candy generated by the video card's processors independant of the table driven plane emulation of the sim.

It's very easy to equate these two things as being tied together as they are in the real world... but in a sim, these are just numbers.

I believe there is indeed something "off", I just don't think you can rely on the smoke/particle effects to indicate what that is.

Madratter
12-22-2011, 12:35 AM
Ok, I actually flew the model. I own 4 different foam 3d models. However, none are in this 39" class. (UMX Extra 300 3d, Twisted Hobbies 32" Xtra Slick, Twisted Hobbys 32" Edge 540, and Twisted Hobbys Crazy 88 Biplane).

That said, my impressions are:

First, the good news. I prefer this to any of the foam 3d planes in Phoenix. Now the not so good news:

1) Roll rate is probably a tad too fast.

2) The plane is acting like there is a lateral balance problem. Walls want to roll out to the right. High G loops also want to roll out to the right.

3) Hovering I am finding myself having to hold more right aileron than I think I should. Either Prop wash or torque model problems could explain that. Oddly enough, I also find it too easy with full application of ailerons to get it rolling to the right out of a hover.

4) I think it drops wings a little too easily in harriers. I have to maintain more speed in them to avoid this than I think I should.

Still, for a first cut at it, I like it :).

Maj. Numbskully
12-22-2011, 01:15 AM
Speaking of Foamies......

Just need to do the Horz. Stab and the graphics layout Part is done

after mulling it over I'm thinking of not doing the stripes on the bottom
I Prefer to keep stock CSs stock

Its a simple enough do it yourself add-on
especially since I'm posting a graphics-less
version to the swaps

jeffpn
12-22-2011, 08:53 AM
Like I said, I'm no physics expert. If anyone has any ideas how to make this model fly like the real one, which values to adjust, I'm all ears.

Madratter's first point seems to indicate that there should be less throws on the ailerons. Yet the first part of his third point indicates it's not enough. Actually his third point contradicts itself at the end, as he says. This is why physics can be so difficult, especially with models for which the creator has no real-world experience. Fun to fly? I think so. Accurate? Not my call.

I have not noticed a lateral balance problem. I've flown this at the Water Park (Night) field. The plane spawns on top of and the same direction as a crack in the cement. It's set up to take off from a narrow piece of cement between two pools. If you give it full throttle only, it goes directly over the cement crack, without veering right or left. If you pull gradually back on the stick, it climbs, loops, and crashes down on that piece of cement, between the two pools.

Madratter
12-22-2011, 08:55 AM
Speaking of Foamies......

Just need to do the Horz. Stab and the graphics layout Part is done

after mulling it over I'm thinking of not doing the stripes on the bottom
I Prefer to keep stock CSs stock

Its a simple enough do it yourself add-on
especially since I'm posting a graphics-less
version to the swaps

Oh, yeah! That is looking really good. :D

Madratter
12-22-2011, 08:58 AM
Like I said, I'm no physics expert. If anyone has any ideas how to make this model fly like the real one, which values to adjust, I'm all ears.

Madratter's first point seems to indicate that there should be less throws on the ailerons. Yet the first part of his third point indicates it's not enough. Actually his third point contradicts itself at the end, as he says. This is why physics can be so difficult, especially with models for which the creator has no real-world experience. Fun to fly? I think so. Accurate? Not my call.

I have not noticed a lateral balance problem. I've flown this at the Water Park (Night) field. The plane spawns on top of and the same direction as a crack in the cement. It's set up to take off from a narrow piece of cement between two pools. If you give it full throttle only, it goes directly over the cement crack, without veering right or left. If you pull gradually back on the stick, it climbs, loops, and crashes down on that piece of cement, between the two pools.


Pull back on the stick hard in a loop so that it is pulling high Gs and do a couple loops in a row. You should easily see the problem by doing that.

jeffpn
12-22-2011, 09:06 AM
Try placing the battery at x=0 (It's now at 0.056). That seems to improve things, but the battery is off center. What would be done in the real world to counteract that?

jeffpn
12-22-2011, 09:30 AM
Ok, so I answer my own question. The receiver and ESC are on the left side, and the battery is on the right. In a perfect world, these would offset each other. I have not assigned weights (let alone wireframe objects) to the RX and ESC, so I think it's probably fair to assume those weights are included in the overall fuse, and the battery wireframe location (and weight) gets set to 0. I am more interested in realistic performance than realistic numbers.