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View Full Version : Curtiss A-12 Shrike


jeffpn
12-19-2011, 09:34 AM
They say a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, right? I'm off until after Christmas. I wonder how much more free time I'll have, though.

It's funny, what starts out to be a great looking 3-view usually turns to crap when you set them up. That's when you find out they are far from symmetrical.

This model will have an 88" wingspan.

abaser
12-19-2011, 10:36 AM
Nice nose you got there :p

brields
12-19-2011, 05:14 PM
It's funny, what starts out to be a great looking 3-view usually turns to crap when you set them up. That's when you find out they are far from symmetrical.


Allot of the 3-views on the internet tend to be hand "drawn" without the use
of a means of measurements, namely: rulers, protractors, compasses (not the nav. kind) etc.

Kmot
12-20-2011, 08:53 PM
It is a strange plane, isn't it!

Maj. Numbskully
12-20-2011, 09:45 PM
Not strange............. just Art-Deco .....don't worry you'll understand when you get older :p

(not you mot)

jeffpn
12-24-2011, 02:21 PM
I'm trying to make progress on this plane, too. I've not yet done a plane with an open cockpit. The change in slope of the fuselage from behind the rear seat to in front of it is, shall I say, interesting?

Maj. Numbskully
12-24-2011, 04:09 PM
I've not yet done a plane with an open cockpit.
Yes......... you Have ;)

jeffpn
12-24-2011, 04:21 PM
The Grunau?

I've been messing around with the rear windows, trying to formulate a plan. I have an idea that I think will work. In the real plane, the rear section of windows slides up under the front section of them. I think I can even make that happen. Hopefully I'll find some good pics showing what's in the cockpit areas.

jeffpn
12-25-2011, 10:12 AM
Ah, the problems you don't see coming when you work on a project. If I want the rear canopy to slide inside the front canopy, I have some serious work to do.

jeffpn
12-25-2011, 12:13 PM
Much better.

jeffpn
12-25-2011, 03:39 PM
All I got for Christmas is a box of vertices. The kit said it would look like a Curtiss A-12 Shrike when I'm done putting them together. I hope I do it right, and don't have any leftover parts!

Kmot
12-26-2011, 02:58 PM
Didn't like the humpback version? :p

jeffpn
12-26-2011, 03:01 PM
I just noticed yesterday that the 2 sets of 3-views you sent me are different like that. There's a difference in the ailerons, too.

jeffpn
12-26-2011, 04:54 PM
I'm still looking for that Boolean button in Wings 3D!

jeffpn
12-26-2011, 05:54 PM
A couple more shots. 3,178 on the triangles.

Kmot
12-26-2011, 10:17 PM
I just noticed yesterday that the 2 sets of 3-views you sent me are different like that. There's a difference in the ailerons, too.
Ya meen yu ain't gunna bild bof of dem? :p

jeffpn
12-27-2011, 12:15 AM
4,756 polies now. Time for some detail.

jeffpn
12-29-2011, 11:50 AM
The requestor (kmot) has asked for a Saito 3 cylinder engine in this model. I think I'll be able to keep the polies relatively low, since it has only 3 cylinders. I'm shooting for a level of detail similar to the 2-stroke I created.

jeffpn
12-29-2011, 05:59 PM
I should've known low polies wouldn't happen. I'm at 2,972 now, and I'm not done yet.. Fins will kill ya!!

jeffpn
12-29-2011, 10:50 PM
6,352 on the polies.

jeffpn
12-29-2011, 11:02 PM
Oops! I had the exhaust running in circles!! :o

jeffpn
12-29-2011, 11:42 PM
Here's a test fit for the Shrike. Now I have to figure out how the cowl might be attached. I may do some scratch building here.

jeffpn
12-30-2011, 10:19 AM
Cables and struts are started.

jeffpn
12-30-2011, 03:31 PM
I reworked the valve cover thingies.

Also, does the cowl mount look acceptable? I don't know how it would be done for a model. With the Saito 3 cylinder, that's the route I'm taking.

jeffpn
12-30-2011, 04:14 PM
I won't keep them, because its a 10k+ motor. That's alot of fins!! :eek:

jeffpn
12-30-2011, 06:13 PM
This plane just won't be able to fall apart. Struts are still not done!!

Kmot
12-30-2011, 06:43 PM
Wow! She's looking great!! :)

I think the engine needs to be moved back a bit. The rocker boxes should be inside the cowling. And the prop washer should not be quite so far forward.

jeffpn
12-30-2011, 06:56 PM
The engine is back as far as the exhaust ring will allow. Any further back, and it's outside the cowl. I don't know if the engine is an accurate size. I can address your issue by shrinking it.

jeffpn
12-30-2011, 09:18 PM
Turns out I did have room to move the motor back. It's not as big as I thought. I did have to push back the firewall. I love artistic freedom! I'll adjust the prop nut later, when it's in RF.

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 12:54 AM
A bit more modeling done. 14,034.

Kmot
12-31-2011, 01:01 AM
Oh man, I'm salivating! :p

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 01:08 AM
I've got the gun, main wheels, and tail gear to go. Here's a shot of the cockpits. What do you want done in them? There's already space for the IP. I would like to keep this looking like a model. I'd love to see some stills of the Shrike in that YouTube video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoQK2_WmcFg

12oclockhigh
12-31-2011, 07:11 AM
When is Knife Edge going to add working flight instruments to Real Flight... the competition has them right now... check out the latest advert in the AMA magazine.

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 09:33 AM
What kind of working instruments could you put into a real RC model? In my opinion, KE has already strayed too far with combat.

12oclockhigh
12-31-2011, 10:03 AM
Glass Panels, HSI, Altimeter, Airspeed, Vertical Speed Indicator, Turn Coordination, Heading and compass. Full IMC panel. Oh, ratios and a navigation device too (but I want full Jepps charts and a Garmin flat panel)... oh, I want synthetic vision too. ADSB In & Out. That about covers it except for the autopilot and auto throttles on the jets.

I laughed when someone said RF was "better" than MSFS... not a clue there.

Hey the competition already has it, and if you are going to offer a cockpit view, then that is part of the cockpit.... is it not?

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 10:26 AM
Okay then... :rolleyes:.

If that's what you want, I don't think RF is the software for you. Go back to MSFS. I prefer to think of of RF's "cockpit view" as FPV, and that IS part of RC aircraft. I think KE's priority needs to remain simulating RC model flight, and not the gimmicks that make it more like a full scale sim.

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 11:03 AM
Tom,
I'll be the first to admit I don't know much if any at all about aircraft mounted machine guns. Does this look reasonable to you? If not, can you find me some good reference material?

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 01:38 PM
Messing around with the fins on my 3-cylinder (reminds me of my 46 MPG Metro!), I came up with this. The top pic is an extra 1,000 polies. It's in the budget. My question is, does it look better? Maybe I should have that kid do a poll for me.

Kmot
12-31-2011, 02:12 PM
Re the engine: The top looks much better with the extra fins.

Re the cockpits: Yes, this is supposed to be a model airplane not a full scale so working instruments is not required. :rolleyes:

Just add a typical instrument panel decal. If it were a Top Gun model it would have a full scale cockpit etc but not needed as this is a 'regular' guys model. :D

Paint the rest of the cockpit areas flat black.

Re the rear gun: The gun looks good, pretty much like these pics show it.

flexible
12-31-2011, 02:14 PM
You could save a lot of polys by letting the Maj paint it, if that is you're goal.

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 02:14 PM
Kmot, I was also picturing the existing cockpit surfaces to be flat black, too. ;)
I'll give the Maj. an IP to color.

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 02:23 PM
I've seen KE bump fins, flex. I don't like the way it looks. I think they're better modeled. Your opinion may vary! ;)

flexible
12-31-2011, 03:00 PM
I am a big fan of the modeled parts. This engine started out from terry, and I have modeled on it three times sense I got it.

flexible
12-31-2011, 03:05 PM
The engine will have twice as many polys as the plane, hehe.

Madratter
12-31-2011, 03:30 PM
Messing around with the fins on my 3-cylinder (reminds me of my 46 MPG Metro!), I came up with this. The top pic is an extra 1,000 polies. It's in the budget. My question is, does it look better? Maybe I should have that kid do a poll for me.

Does it look better? For me, definitely yes. Is it worth the extra 1000 polygons? My guess is they are better spent elsewhere, especially since you might be able to get a lot of what looks better by using the right texture.

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 03:39 PM
I'm pretty much done modeling. I don't know what else ought to be included. The polies are available. I just had reservations on the accordion appearance. I think it's better than the other way. Like I said, I don't like the look of bumped fins.

12oclockhigh
12-31-2011, 03:56 PM
I am pointing out two things... first the comment about Real Flight being better than MSFS... which we all know to be comparing two different animals.

Second... Aerofly is doing what I requested right now. Check out the magazine. It would be cool and if you just positioned one of several instrument clusters in your cockpit, it might be easy and cool. Just because you don't want it does not mean others might not. I might buy aerofly just to take a look and because it is also available for the Mac. RF might just have to keep up with the jones. Then of course Rise of Flight is pretty good for WWI simulators and will show how RF needs to look at those planes again. Forgot to mention Phoenix.

Now as far as going back to MSFS, was that nice? and I prefer X-plane 9 anyway. Version 10 is out now. Keep hearing rumors of a FS upgrade... but that has not been happening.


Okay then... :rolleyes:.

If that's what you want, I don't think RF is the software for you. Go back to MSFS. I prefer to think of of RF's "cockpit view" as FPV, and that IS part of RC aircraft. I think KE's priority needs to remain simulating RC model flight, and not the gimmicks that make it more like a full scale sim.

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 04:07 PM
Quiet, nooner!! Or I'll put enough decals on the model to make Kyle Petty jealous!! :p

12oclockhigh
12-31-2011, 04:40 PM
Can you say "1" ??? :D

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 04:42 PM
One.

Now what?

When ratings affect my income, or my health, or my family, then maybe I'll care about them. They really mean nothing, you know.

flexible
12-31-2011, 04:50 PM
When they start puberty, it makes there tiny little brain explode.

12oclockhigh
12-31-2011, 05:04 PM
Maybe you should try this:

http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar_quiz/their_vs_there_vs_theyre_1.asp

I got every one right... did you?

phrank
12-31-2011, 05:04 PM
I think midnight is asking for a Feature Request.
It would make sense if NavGuides can be skinnable for an FPV display like the small OSD kits out there.
Could they be tied to an IP? Probably, but then again this is R/C, I've yet to see a youtube FPV video with a working gauge IP.

Oh wait, we were talking about the Srike... :D Looking great Jeff.

12oclockhigh
12-31-2011, 05:09 PM
I would actually like steam gauges.... but keeping a kettle of steam going to fly the sim might be a bit much to ask.

Hey Aerofly has the feature.

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 05:16 PM
How's that, Andy?

abaser
12-31-2011, 05:31 PM
Much mo betta :p

andy29847
12-31-2011, 06:44 PM
30 cal Browning

http://browningmgs.com/AirGunnery/02_30cal.htm

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 06:50 PM
Where we're you a few hours ago?! I think what I have is a good approximation. Take mine, and a highly detailed gun, and do a 40 mph flyby at 15 yards, viewed from the ground as a real RC pilot would. You won't be able to tell the difference.

andy29847
12-31-2011, 07:19 PM
Where we're you a few hours ago?

Sorry I wasn't here earlier. I was out working on my other 2 hobbies, motorcycles and BBQ. The big surprise today was that the BBQ spot, Pik-N-Pigs, was located on the grounds of the county airport, just outside Carthage, NC. Our group sat out on the patio and I got to watch all the comings and goings of people/planes flying in to eat. The highlight of the day airplane was was an very nice green and gold V-tail Bonanza.

About that gun - can you make it shoot?

From the other thread about working instruments - I am with you. Who cares.

One thing I want - a plane that pulls a banner where I can change the message. :D

Happy New year!!!

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 07:22 PM
I have no plans to make the gun shoot. That's not my thing. That's editor stuff, anyway. Anyone interested can do it for themselves.

td9cowboy
12-31-2011, 07:52 PM
I think your banner that you can change the text on is an excellent idea. Only dynamic so you could pull it with anything using the grapple.

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 07:55 PM
I think it's a given that we'll see banners in RF some day.

td9cowboy
12-31-2011, 08:03 PM
Banners would be cool. Everyone else being able to read your banner in a MP session would be priceless. ;)

jeffpn
12-31-2011, 10:52 PM
kmot, last call for objects. I have 5k polies to play with (but I'll need around 1k of that for a CMesh). Plenty of room for anything you feel I overlooked. Like I said, I'm not interested in going into the cockpit.

Once I start mapping, I don't like to change things around.

Kmot
01-01-2012, 02:18 AM
Have you made flaps? Gunsight tube? Antenna behind pilot? Machine guns in the wheel pants?

Any of those you can fit in those 4K polys would be great.

Here is a nice plastic model for color reference:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47751/message/1296880653/A-12+Shrike

jeffpn
01-01-2012, 09:40 AM
Right after I went to bed last night, I was thinking I should'v posted some pics so you could see where I was at. I was hoping I could edit my post this morning before you replied. Here is where I'm at. The only thing I can see missing is some detail on the main gear pants. It looks like the left one is not the same as the right one.

Flaps - check
Gunsight tube - I think so. Is that the tube on the hood?
Antenna behind pilot - check
wheel pant machine guns - not yet

jeffpn
01-01-2012, 10:41 AM
Here's the start of the left wheel pant. I think the right one is different, with 2 bumps on it, where the left pant only has the one. Is that right?

Maj. Numbskully
01-01-2012, 11:54 AM
It is according to this model....
http://kits.kitreview.com/a12shrikereviewbg_1.htm

not bad for a sunday 'eh jeff ? :p

jeffpn
01-01-2012, 12:23 PM
You suck, Maj.! Where the hell were those pics a month ago?!?! :p :eek:

That should help you with panel lines, right?

Maj. Numbskully
01-01-2012, 01:38 PM
oh yes ;) ......seek and you shall find ! :p

Kmot
01-01-2012, 02:20 PM
Must be running production variations Jeff because the photos I have seen show the right pant having a blister too. Maybe some variations had the blisters on both wheelpants.

In either case each pant has two gun barrels it looks like. The lower gun in the blister and the upper gun must fit better into the pant because only the barrel shows. But it is hard to judge accurately because either the photos are too small or large but too grainy, etc.

BTW, nice photo Jeff I have not run across that one!

Look at this plastic model too:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47751/message/1296880653/A-12+Shrike

jeffpn
01-01-2012, 02:26 PM
Tom, I've been using that model you posted for a good bit of reference throughout the whole build. I've been using other photos too. That's when differences show up as you mentioned. Does this look reasonable? That black and white shot I posted just a couple back (post 67) looks to have the machine guns not mounted. The left blister has a different shape than the right blister. The right blister shows the barrel, while the left blister does not. What is your impression of this? I saved the old pants, so undoing anything is not an issue.

jeffpn
01-01-2012, 03:27 PM
Maj., regarding the model link you just posted: I originally modeled the ailerons just like the model. The aileron tip has a jog in it. That's how one of the 3-views was. The other 3-view, and all, if not most, of the pictures I saw had a straight aileron tip. I modeled it straight for that reason, and because it's an easier pivot. If I would have seen that model kit earlier on, I would've probably modeled the tip that way. Oh well, no biggie.

Maj. Numbskully
01-01-2012, 03:46 PM
I'd trust actual photos over a plastic model any day ;)

jeffpn
01-01-2012, 04:00 PM
I would hope that Revell et al. don't make things up nearly to the extent that I do! Shhhh!!! :p

Kmot
01-01-2012, 05:50 PM
I would totally trust a scale plastic model. Most of them are taken from measurements of a full size real plane at a museum. And now today using laser scanning they can get dimensions right down to a gnats butt hair. :p

Jeff, the two wheel pants look good to me. Call it a wrap! :)

jeffpn
01-01-2012, 06:06 PM
Call it a wrap!
I'll start to map!

Norton
01-01-2012, 06:33 PM
Bingo!

jeffpn
01-02-2012, 03:44 PM
When I started to model, I tried to mess around with rendering inside Wings. It didn't work too well. In fact, it would error out. I'd forget about it, try again, forget about it, try again. It was alot like learning how to model. I'd get frustrated, give up, and lose interest. Today, I tried again, and got this. The Wings plug in won't let you do much if anything as far as backgrounds and other effects. It will let you do this.

Kmot
01-02-2012, 06:49 PM
KooooooooooooL! :cool:

Maj. Numbskully
01-02-2012, 08:17 PM
kmot
In doing CS for awhile now
and being a big fan of pan.lines and rivets
I've used both plastic models and photos on more than one occasion for reference
And I've found there to be some gross errors in some , not all , static plastic models
especially pan lines ..............most of the time missing ones

Kmot
01-02-2012, 10:05 PM
Okay.

Which brand of models were incorrect? I hope not Revell or Tamiya?

Boof69
01-02-2012, 10:14 PM
Tamiya seems to be fairly accurate in my experience.

Maj. Numbskully
01-03-2012, 04:50 PM
I'm not sure of the make
I just look for photos of them and sometimes note discrepancies
some of them are 40 years old or older

jeffpn
01-07-2012, 10:53 AM
I got a little sidetracked the last few days, playing with rendering in Wings. I do have the model mapped now. I have to break up and rename the parts, then it's off to Max.

jeffpn
01-07-2012, 01:15 PM
Looks like the final poly count, including 812 polies for the CMesh, is 18,943. The engine is around 7,600 of that.

Kmot
01-07-2012, 01:16 PM
That really looks great Jeff! :)

jeffpn
01-07-2012, 01:29 PM
Thank you, sir.

Maj. Numbskully
01-07-2012, 02:31 PM
That really looks great Jeff! :)
As usual !........... ;) :D

jeffpn
01-07-2012, 02:34 PM
As usual !........... ;) :D
It's going to look a whole lot better! ;)

jeffpn
01-07-2012, 07:29 PM
What color scheme do you want, kmot? (wink wink)

Kmot
01-07-2012, 08:40 PM
That ^ one. :D

jeffpn
01-08-2012, 01:05 PM
Here's a new one for me. I defined some basic parameters for the initial physics. I tried to save it when I was done. This window came up. I could not close the window out. It kept coming back. I had to 3 finger RF to shut down. When I started it back up, none of the edits that I made were saved. It went back to default.

flexible
01-08-2012, 01:12 PM
Always look at the last thing you did! Always! Give some shots of what is going on with that pod below the cowling.

jeffpn
01-08-2012, 01:20 PM
It's not a pod, that's the smoke location.

flexible
01-08-2012, 01:36 PM
Ok, you did a no no to get that eror.

Maj. Numbskully
01-08-2012, 02:06 PM
Just add a typical instrument panel decal. If it were a Top Gun model it would have a full scale cockpit etc but not needed as this is a 'regular' guys model. :D
Paint the rest of the cockpit areas flat black.

kmot.

still not sure how far do you want to go with this one? ...
do you want visible spars , pan. line/rivets ?
not sure how far you want me to detail it?

I was thinking of making it look like this RW RC model ..........
or It could be much simpler ....up to you

check out the cool wav file sample at this site:
http://aviationtrivia.info/rcairplane/Curtiss-A-12-Shrike.php

jeffpn
01-08-2012, 02:13 PM
Here's a YouTube showing what the Saito 3 cylinder sounds like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YRqt4ITiNU

Maj. Numbskully
01-08-2012, 02:16 PM
Ya I think that the file from my post is not really the models motor.....that Saito is one sweet engine

jeffpn
01-08-2012, 02:53 PM
Maj., kmot, check your email. EA sent.

jeffpn
01-08-2012, 02:57 PM
Here's a pic of the engine as it appears in RF.

Maj. Numbskully
01-08-2012, 04:48 PM
Well its a start anyways ....base colors roughed in............

jeffpn
01-08-2012, 04:51 PM
Geez, Maj.! Slow down!! :p Are you trying to work us out of a job?? Pace yourself!! :D

Maj. Numbskully
01-08-2012, 04:57 PM
If it wasn't for pan lines rivets and spars it'd be done in another hour or less :p

Maj. Numbskully
01-08-2012, 05:01 PM
Let me know and I can send you and mot a wip rfx ......green is just to boring


I think it flys much like in the video....maybe needs just a hair more power or a different prop pitch ?

jeffpn
01-08-2012, 05:03 PM
You know I'll take a preview. You can just send the .tga. No need to wrap it up in a CS file.

Maj. Numbskully
01-08-2012, 05:11 PM
tga @ your e-mail

Kmot
01-08-2012, 11:10 PM
Geeze guys, you move so fast!!! :eek:

Maj, I would appreciate very much some scale detailing like panel lines and rivets. Just because it does not have a detailed cockpit (which nobody can see while it is in flight) doesn't mean the airframe can't be gussied up! Panel lines etc are very noticeable on those slow scale flyby's. :D

Jeff you did an amazing job on the Saito radial, not to mention the aircraft. It's too bad we can't import that sound from the video.

jeffpn
01-08-2012, 11:13 PM
Thanks, kmot.

Maj. Numbskully
01-09-2012, 12:12 AM
Thats what I'll do then kmot...............who knows I MAY even post a 2nd version with a detailed and bumped IP
It's too bad we can't import that sound from the video.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: I hear ya :p

Maybe I need to take a second listen to the engine sound again ....actually I think the one jeff picked is not that far off ...well .....given the choices we have I mean

Maj. Numbskully
01-10-2012, 11:40 PM
I think it will look better with a blue fire wall .............. but here it is with gray (second shot with shadows turned off) ....jeff where is the inside of the cowl getting its color from ??
I'm guessing its stacked with the out side ??

why is it you can only see chrome on the engines fin edges .....from an angle?

Boof69
01-11-2012, 12:24 AM
That's looking great Guys. :) I notice chrome is finicky sometimes. Not sure what's going on.

Kmot
01-11-2012, 02:39 AM
Yes, the gray did not turn out well. I now think the blue firewall would be better. Especially since it seems to make the engine look more silver.

jeffpn
01-11-2012, 07:24 AM
The inside of the cowl is the ring that has the parts inside it, next to the text I put there.

Here's a quick render of the model. I think it's looking great, Maj.

Maj. Numbskully
01-11-2012, 07:54 PM
pan lines on wheel struts/pants, main wings and fuse finished

Kmot
01-11-2012, 10:55 PM
Looks sharp!

Maj. Numbskully
01-17-2012, 07:05 PM
while looking for ref. photos I ran across these 2 oddities

1 ....anyone know or care to guess what this Shrike has mounted on its wings?

2 what the #%$@#$ is this Shrike dropping?
at first glance I thought it was a paratrooper but upon closer inspection it looks like some kind of field equipment ....but what?

jeffpn
01-17-2012, 07:08 PM
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=2914
Photo 14 & 15

The other one might be dropping flares for smoke, to see what the wind is doing. I don't know.

Maj. Numbskully
01-17-2012, 07:13 PM
Wow this forum is very helpful ,thanks for the quick response
:p

brields
01-18-2012, 09:45 PM
while looking for ref. photos I ran across these 2 oddities

1 ....anyone know or care to guess what this Shrike has mounted on its wings?

2 what the #%$@#$ is this Shrike dropping?
at first glance I thought it was a paratrooper but upon closer inspection it looks like some kind of field equipment ....but what?

It's a dummy pilot. Used back in the late 40's, they simulated a pilot or
crew member bailing out of the plane in a moch-battle. they stopped being used when, at an airshow, a dummy pilot was throw'n from a zero after it was "shot down" in a moch dogfight with the Blue Angels, who were flying F6F's at the time.
The dummy was mistakenly ejected over the crowed area and hit a spectator. The
parachute DID NOT deploy, so the spectator was injured badly. :(

Norton
01-18-2012, 09:51 PM
It's a dummy pilot. Used back in the late 40's, they simulated a pilot or
crew member bailing out of the plane in a moch-battle. they stopped being used when, at an airshow, a dummy pilot was throw'n from a zero after it was "shot down" in a moch dogfight with the Blue Angels, who were flying F6F's at the time.
The dummy was mistakenly ejected over the crowed area and hit a spectator. The
parachute DID NOT deploy, so the spectator was injured badly. :(


Where did you find that info? I would like to see the web page.

Please don't say a fiend told you ;)

Maj. Numbskully
01-18-2012, 09:55 PM
That may be.............. but thats not what it is
At first I thought that too
jeff posted a link and the caption for that photo states its a flare

jeffpn
01-18-2012, 09:58 PM
jeff posted a link and the caption for that photo states its a flareI don't know, Maj. My link takes you to the National Museum of the Air Force. How reliable could that be? :rolleyes:

Norton
01-18-2012, 10:00 PM
That may be.............. but thats not what it is
At first I thought that too
jeff posted a link and the caption for that photo states its a flare

That's why I was asking breilds where he got his info ;)

Maj. Numbskully
01-21-2012, 12:02 AM
kmot...
I can not find
nor can I determine what that shield looks like exactly
(looks like a silhouette of a light bulb? or skull? ,balloon?, keyhole? :confused: :p)

So I've decided to go with this one from the 13th Attack Squadron (now the 13th bomb squadron) if thats ok with you.( I still need to clean it up some)

I did find the shield on a A-12 decal sheet but its for from "Czech models" and have already found many incorrect things with that one .............like the incorrect reaper and Roundel (amongst other things.) they cant even get the roundel right !! :p
Call me anal but I like to try and keep things as accurate ;)

brields
01-21-2012, 12:13 AM
Where did you find that info? I would like to see the web page.

Please don't say a fiend told you ;)

I actually watched a DVD about the Blue Angels. I forget the name.
And on a closer look, I can confirm that the object is in fact, four parachute flairs.

:eek: That explains the triangular shaped light patterns seen in the skies during
WWII. :eek: :p

jeffpn
01-21-2012, 10:50 AM
I can confirm that the object is in fact, four parachute flairs.
Thanks for confirming, Brields. I wasn't sure if your original explanation or the caption of the picture on the USAF website was the source of the misinformation.

Maj. Numbskully
01-21-2012, 01:00 PM
okay I made the shield (close enough)........just not to sure if its even a real squadron given the source
all my research does not turn one up with that shield

jeffpn
01-21-2012, 01:15 PM
Close enough?!?! All that crap you're giving me with the Albatross struts, and you get to settle for 'close enough?' :p

Maj. Numbskully
01-21-2012, 01:19 PM
lol... :rolleyes:

Kmot
01-21-2012, 01:42 PM
Hey Maj, looks like you nailed it! :)

However, you have artistic license as far as I am concerned. Make any version of the A-12 scheme that you like.

Maj. Numbskully
01-21-2012, 01:56 PM
ok I'm gonna stick with the reaper

uncle twist
01-22-2012, 02:56 AM
Now ,who would have thunk that ;) ;) ;) ;) :D

brields
01-22-2012, 03:29 PM
I thought of it happening.

Maj. Numbskully
01-22-2012, 07:02 PM
If the shoe fits........ :rolleyes: :p

Kmot
02-02-2012, 01:29 PM
So, how's it coming along now? :)

jeffpn
02-02-2012, 01:40 PM
I'm done. We're waiting on the other guy!

Maj. Numbskully
02-02-2012, 09:47 PM
Hoping to get it done by this weekend
other non RF things keep coming up and finding more that a few minutes to work on it at a time lately has been tough
working full time now also cuts in to my CS time....as well as staying on the good side of the other half :rolleyes: ................dam them priorities ! :p

Kmot
02-02-2012, 10:26 PM
Okay, understood. Thanks for keeping at it when you can. :)

Maj. Numbskully
02-06-2012, 02:14 AM
LIEUTENANT COLONEL HORACE MEEK HICKAM

On November 5, 1934, while practicing night landings on an unlighted runway at Fort Crockett, Texas
Lieutenant Colonel Horace Meek Hickam was killed when his Curtiss A-12 Shrike serial number 33-250 of the Third Attack Group hit an embankment and flipped over. Flags flew at half-mast as the men under his command mourned the loss of their beloved leader. The full complement of military personnel assigned to the Third Attack Group at Fort Crockett ,Texas marched from the post to the Malloy & Son funeral home and from there escorted the body of their late commander to the train at Union Station, as a flight of aircraft flew overhead in the missing-man formation. Mrs. Hickam accompanied the body to Washington for the funeral at Arlington National Cemetery, where he was buried with full military honors on November 10, 1934

In 1935, a board of officers met in Washington, D.C., and recommended that the new Army Air Corps station to be constructed in the Territory of Hawaii be named in honor of Lieutenant Colonel Horace Meek Hickam. Major General Benjamin D. Foulois, Chief of the Air Corps, approved; General Douglas MacArthur, War Department Chief of Staff, issued the orders; and on May 31, 1935, the new flying field on the island of Oahu was dedicated and named "Hickam Field” Which along with Pearl Harbor was Suprise attacted by the Japanese on Decembr 7th 1941.
This was a fitting tribute to the West Pointer who began his career in the cavalry then transferred to the Army Air Service and became a pioneer advocate of air power.

Maj. Numbskully
02-06-2012, 02:16 AM
more.....

Although its supposed to be the first all metal aircraft
(not really true ....it still had fabric Ailerons , the first true all metal construction US. military plane was the P-26 "peashooter"which by the way bears a striking resemblance to the shrike IMO)
I gave it some wing spars ..(nothing fancy )that are normally not visible on the full size bird
I tried to retain a little RC look to it , along with the sticker I.P. as requested by Kmot
I borrowed the IP sticker from the Extra300SP but I rearranged the gauges as best I could with what I had to work with to resemble the layout of the shrike

It's in your E-mail jeff for your approval

jeffpn
02-06-2012, 07:15 AM
As always, the screenies look excellent. I'll install the CS later today. Thanks for bailing me out. Again!!

kmot, I forwarded it to you for another set of eyes.

Boof69
02-06-2012, 09:54 AM
Incredible detail. All around excellent work. I wish I could talk you guys into using an AO map for this model. There are many places on this model that would benefit from it. I would be willing to help with it. Without it the model still absolutely rocks. Great job.

Kmot
02-06-2012, 01:15 PM
I have a very big grin on my mug right now! :D

It looks fantastic! Thanks Jeff for the killer model and Gerald for the killer CS! :)

Some soldier is going to get gigged for leaving some mud on the undersides of the wheel pants. :p

Kmot
02-06-2012, 03:13 PM
I have loaded it and looked at it in the sim and I think it looks great. Thanks again! :)

Maj. Numbskully
02-06-2012, 05:23 PM
. I wish I could talk you guys into using an AO map for this model. There are many places on this model that would benefit from it. .
Been there done that boof .......I tried it at your recommended 50% opacity and I thought it looked too unnatural and dark .......so I backed it down to around 30%

jeffpn
02-06-2012, 06:38 PM
Here's a few renders to wet your whistle while we put on the finishing touches.

Boof69
02-06-2012, 08:13 PM
I'm sorry I didnt notice. The percentage really should be based on the lightness of the main color. 30% seems right. Any shots of the interior? :)

Boof69
02-06-2012, 08:16 PM
I love that these models are coming with renders. It really shows off the details. Looks great.

Maj. Numbskully
02-06-2012, 11:55 PM
other than a basic sticker type IP and rear back rest there really isn't an interior
kmot wanted to stick to the rc side of things............... so I went for something pseudo scaleish like

Kmot
02-06-2012, 11:59 PM
Those chromed rocker boxes are the shiznitt! :D

Maj. Numbskully
02-07-2012, 12:02 AM
In the render they do look freakin real don't they !!
to bad RF does not render like that
I was also noticing how real the grip tape looked

jeffpn
02-07-2012, 07:16 AM
Maj., your PM box is full! :p

jeffpn
02-08-2012, 05:33 PM
Posted.
http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=16226

willsonman
02-08-2012, 07:39 PM
lol, I like the credits for the physics.

jeffpn
02-08-2012, 07:41 PM
I figured, "Why lie?" :D

Kmot
02-09-2012, 01:55 AM
I'm glad it's official now and on the swaps. Great job guys, thanks! :cool:

Madratter
02-11-2012, 05:13 PM
IRL, Mostly what I fly is 3d Foam jobs so I'm used to silly power and control authority instead of more scale like performance. That said, this is a fun plane to fly and it looks great. Here is a low inverted pass.

jeffpn
02-11-2012, 05:16 PM
Inverted? Nice! Have you tried flying straight up with it? It won't go far. Wouldn't surprise me if that was accurate.

Madratter
02-11-2012, 05:27 PM
Actually, I had a blast doing some hammerheads with it. But you are right, it doesn't go up very far before it wants to fall back down.

Kmot
02-28-2012, 12:15 AM
Looks good when wet too. :p

willsonman
02-28-2012, 07:09 AM
interesting shadowing on the right wingtip... looks odd. And under the h-stab

jeffpn
02-28-2012, 07:22 AM
Looks like he has the Water Shadow Quality setting on.

Kmot
02-28-2012, 01:22 PM
Yes, I have all the shadows turned on.