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abaser
02-25-2012, 10:28 AM
By request, I present the Pitts S-1 build. I have only gotten the 3-views set so far, but I actually spent alot of time on them getting them scaled as requested and making sure everything was actually lining up properly. Building will start later today or tonight.

(and for those thinking it, yes I know there are some available;):p)

abaser
02-26-2012, 01:29 AM
Just a few progress shots. Lots of touching up to do, but it's a start.

Madratter
02-26-2012, 02:28 AM
Wow you work fast. Nice.

jeffpn
02-26-2012, 08:41 AM
You'll get there, madratter. Comes with experience.

abaser
02-26-2012, 11:16 AM
Wow you work fast. Nice.


Lol! May seem like it on your end:p Ive got about 6-7 hrs in it right now, but like Jeff said, it will come to you in time. ;)

This is fast.

http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26943

Hab
02-26-2012, 01:44 PM
thanks Andy.... :)

Just a few progress shots. Lots of touching up to do, but it's a start.

abaser
02-27-2012, 01:08 AM
I know this doesn't look like much progress, but this just about made me scream. In the majority of the pics that Ive seen of this model show the Vstab as part of the fuse. So, I give it my best shot, and I will say that I HATE these types of curves now:p

abaser
02-28-2012, 01:18 AM
A little more progress. Time these past couple days has really been hard to find for this.

I have to be honest here, Ive never been just real impressed with the bumped in wing ribs, so I decided to try something different for me, modeling them in. Surprisingly, Ive got it down to adding around 50 polys per wing half, so Ill be adding an extra 200 on this model, but Im pretty pleased with the outcome.

Maj. Numbskully
02-28-2012, 03:47 AM
Nice! ...............but keep it to yourself !......... or I'll be outsourced :eek:
:p:p

jeffpn
02-28-2012, 07:26 AM
No worries, Maj.! There's something else going on here. I don't see how you can bump in a set of wing ribs for 50 polies.

http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showpost.php?p=187894&postcount=27

abaser
02-28-2012, 08:25 AM
Ok, ok. So you may be right. But I dont see it. The red circle indicates the face count. Count the number of untriangulated faces. I come up with 24, and if a poly cant be more than twice the quad, that's 48:p:D

jeffpn
02-28-2012, 08:50 AM
That's an interesting method. When I did it in that link I provided, I selected the ribs and extruded them out. That's alot more polies than pushing the between areas in. Nice job!

abaser
02-28-2012, 08:55 AM
To be fair though, after it's all said and done, the top wing is near 80 faces heavy over the bottom. Most of which are already triangulated though.

jeffpn
02-28-2012, 09:37 AM
Maj., I think I'm going to combine this technique with the technique I was just telling you about. Should make for some good bones, and you'll see exactly where the ribs are (not that you'll need to bump them, but you will need to color them into the wing.)

abaser
02-28-2012, 09:40 AM
IT'S GONNA COST YA!!!!:p:D:p:D

jeffpn
02-28-2012, 09:42 AM
I've paid my dues! (Time after time.)

abaser
02-28-2012, 09:44 AM
:p:D:p:D

abaser
02-28-2012, 03:29 PM
It works on the tail too:p

This is a little exaggerated though. It will be a little less noticeable when I finish, just out of time for now.

I also reworked the wing ribs a bit to give the effect of TE sheeting.

Hab
02-28-2012, 06:05 PM
Nice :D


It works on the tail too:p

This is a little exaggerated though. It will be a little less noticeable when I finish, just out of time for now.

I also reworked the wing ribs a bit to give the effect of TE sheeting.

abaser
02-29-2012, 12:26 AM
Again, not much time tonight, but I got all of the wings ribbed out. Here's a quick rough render.

jeffpn
02-29-2012, 07:15 AM
Looks nice, except the rudder. It has shading issues!

abaser
02-29-2012, 08:21 AM
As my 8yr old says, that is an epic fail. It will be completely replaced.

abaser
03-04-2012, 10:05 AM
Well, time has really not been on my side, but I had a little bit this morning. Doesn't look like much, I know, but I have completely remade the fuselage from scratch. I'm much happier with this one, but I still nee to work on the vstab/fuselage joint to remove the shading.

abaser
03-04-2012, 10:22 PM
Houston, we have a problem. This morning, I upgraded to the latest Blender version. I have not touched my file since then. When I went to open it now, things appear to be in wireframe, so I hit "Z" to get out of it, and it's a no go. I went to the properties, it's showing solid, but Im still seeing wire frame:confused: So, I tried to export a 3ds, and an obj but get an error listing a mile long. I can't even get a render of it. So, long story short, if I can't figure this out, this build is a bust:mad: Seems the upgrade may have corrupted the file somehow. Im at a loss here.

Boof69
03-04-2012, 10:27 PM
Try reinstalling the earlier version of blender.

abaser
03-04-2012, 10:32 PM
I still have it installed. In fact I now have 3 versions. Things look fine in 2.62, but will not export. 2.5 and 2.49b only show the wire frame. I tried the auto save file and it is the same as my saved file in appearance.

Boof69
03-04-2012, 10:38 PM
ughhh :( I'm so sorry to hear that. That sucks.

abaser
03-05-2012, 01:00 AM
Ive figured out a way to get a real low poly model...........No faces, no polys.:(

a4magic
03-05-2012, 01:25 AM
I know when I first started (trying) to model that wings didn't cooperate. Maybe it is a driver error, or maybe your entire system needs to update. Or even try selecting edges and click make face.
(Just throwing ideas out)

maxkop
03-05-2012, 04:54 AM
Press "a" and select all faces. Then you will see a number....

abaser
03-05-2012, 08:04 AM
After messing around a bit with it, I think one of my kids may have done something, but Im not accusing yet. My faces have been deleted. I can manually create faces, but Im not going to create 3000 faces manually.

Maxkop, that was with "A" hit:p Ive never seen anything like this. Usually if I delete faces that leave open verts, the verts go bye-bye too.

Oh well, that's life I guess:D

abaser
03-05-2012, 01:29 PM
Ok, this is due to me updating to the newest version of blender. I have been told by the blender forum moderators that a 2.6x version now supports ngons, and thus the way things are saved. I may have a fix, but won't know till I get home to try it.

So, the lesson here is, dont update to a version past 2.59 as it will be wasted time unless a new exporter is made.

Madratter
03-05-2012, 02:06 PM
Maybe, but it isn't the whole story. I have been working in Blender 2.6.2 and so far my model comes into 2.49 just fine.

abaser
03-05-2012, 03:02 PM
Have you added bmesh to it? I was told that was the problem.

It looks like you are using a version of 2.6 after bmesh was incorporated (r44630). If that is the case you should not be surprised if things are not backward compatible. Use the official 2.62 download for compatibility, not some development build.



I have gotten my file back, for the most part anyway. I did lose the 3 views, and I haven't went through everything yet, but things seem to be in order.

Madratter
03-05-2012, 05:07 PM
As far as I can tell, Bmesh wasn't in 2.6.2. So it hasn't hit me. But that does tell me I probably should not upgrade beyond 2.6.2 until there is a new exporter for later versions of blender.

abaser
03-05-2012, 06:15 PM
Ya,bmesh is an add on for .62 that I thought would be nice to try. Lesson learned. 2.63 will have it incorporated so that will be out of the question for now. One more reason we need the new export script.

abaser
03-06-2012, 11:23 PM
Welp......Im about out of ideas here. Ive checked for duplicate verts, made edges sharp (hard for the wings guys:p) redid smoothing, and a few other thnigs to fix this, but unless someone has a better idea, I think it's going to be a complete rebuild. Im just afraid of going further only to be bitten by something later. I get this everywhere there was a sharp edge marked.

abaser
03-09-2012, 09:23 AM
So after 2 days trying to fix my broken file, I decided to just start over:(. So here is about an hours worth work, most of which was setting up the 3-views which were completely lost in the mix up.

Madratter
03-09-2012, 09:37 AM
So after 2 days trying to fix my broken file, I decided to just start over:(. So here is about an hours worth work, most of which was setting up the 3-views which were completely lost in the mix up.

Oh wow. Sorry Andy :(

abaser
03-09-2012, 09:50 AM
I'm thinking I can use my wings though. The black areas in the previous pic was due to having about 6 verts stacked on top of each other. The only fix I could f find was to box select each vert and see if duplicated. If so, I could merge. Not ready to do that with every vert. I can redo it faster.

abaser
03-09-2012, 03:10 PM
A little lunch time progress.

abaser
03-10-2012, 01:10 AM
I believe its nearly ready for control surfaces and gear.

andy29847
03-10-2012, 06:26 AM
Back in the day....I had a 1/3 scale Pitts. My plane was a Byron originals kits with a Quadra 50 gas engine. I didn't feel like the plane had enough power, and I was worried about what a gas leak might do to the Styrofoam that formed the plane, so I converted the engine to alcohol. Woo-wee, that made a difference - it would do 4 vertical rolls before it fell off the line. Of course, it would burn through 20 oz of fuel in the blink of an eye and it was much harder to start. I eventually changed it back to gas. Ping me if there is something I can do to help with the project.

http://andy29847.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/misc-pics/i-d9khfqS/0/O/h.jpg

jeffpn
03-10-2012, 08:04 AM
Ping me if ...

What kind of response time would he find? :p

Hab
03-10-2012, 09:10 AM
When you switched over to alky........ did you run the "Byro Drive" ?


Back in the day....I had a 1/3 scale Pitts. My plane was a Byron originals kits with a Quadra 50 gas engine. I didn't feel like the plane had enough power, and I was worried about what a gas leak might do to the Styrofoam that formed the plane, so I converted the engine to alcohol. Woo-wee, that made a difference - it would do 4 vertical rolls before it fell off the line. Of course, it would burn through 20 oz of fuel in the blink of an eye and it was much harder to start. I eventually changed it back to gas. Ping me if there is something I can do to help with the project.

http://andy29847.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/misc-pics/i-d9khfqS/0/O/h.jpg

andy29847
03-10-2012, 09:13 AM
Jeff - response is slow. :D


Hab - Don't know "Byro Drive"

The pic is from the early 90's. IIRC, I used a bigger prop - maybe from 18x10 to 20x10 (or 12).

Hab
03-10-2012, 10:03 AM
Jeff - response is slow. :D


Hab - Don't know "Byro Drive"

The pic is from the early 90's. IIRC, I used a bigger prop - maybe from 18x10 to 20x10 (or 12).

Byro Drive :44575

abaser
03-10-2012, 10:13 AM
Wow!:eek: Is that a belt drive setup?

Hab
03-10-2012, 10:40 AM
Yes ... 3:1 I believe. Allowed the use of a 2 stroke mounted
with its own pulley ( can see the mounting bay).
Not sure about running glow / alky fuel in gas engine if thats whats
Andy was referring too. That I see chewing ~wasting a lot of fuel up fast,
if it survived .... :eek:



Wow!:eek: Is that a belt drive setup?

andy29847
03-10-2012, 11:21 AM
Not sure about running glow / alky fuel in gas engine if thats whats
Andy was referring too. That I see chewing ~wasting a lot of fuel up fast,
if it survived ....

It was a simple conversion - bolt on another carb with bigger jets. It burned a lot of fuel but it made serious power (think NASCAR vs INDY car). I did a search to see if the carbs are still available. I found them being used to hot rod scooters. :D

http://www.scooterpartscatalog.com/walbro-alcohol-carburetor-114-18.html

Hab
03-10-2012, 12:57 PM
Hmmm....don't get me started on racing. The 1st longtime passion - way of life / before R/C.
Yeah, I know what it takes when setting up a motor, drag anyway, for alky- methanol use. Never converted a gas 2s to alky though.


It was a simple conversion - bolt on another carb with bigger jets. It burned a lot of fuel but it made serious power (think NASCAR vs INDY car). I did a search to see if the carbs are still available. I found them being used to hot rod scooters. :D

http://www.scooterpartscatalog.com/walbro-alcohol-carburetor-114-18.html

abaser
03-10-2012, 05:35 PM
Hab, is this the gear you want used?

Also, at one point, you said something about a flat bottomed fuse. Did you want that, or do you want it more rounded? I can't remember.

Hab
03-10-2012, 08:07 PM
Gear looks good Andy. Like how your using flat aluminum gear, and not having the struts attached to the fuse itself. Cool. Yea, the fuse bottom isn't round.
Pic shows

Hab, is this the gear you want used?

Also, at one point, you said something about a flat bottomed fuse. Did you want that, or do you want it more rounded? I can't remember.

abaser
03-11-2012, 12:07 PM
Wing controls cut. Man I wish this part was as easy as it is in wings:p

abaser
03-11-2012, 11:11 PM
Ive gotten most of the modeling done, I believe. All that I see that's left is the connections for the aileron rods, center top wing supports, spinner, and the tail gear. Just out of curiosity, can I assume the aileron rods would connect just as a servo arm would? These are much larger than the ones on my late hog bipe, but that's how it connected.

Hab, here are some close ups of what I have. let me know what you think.

As of right now, Im somewhere just below 12k polys. Since I havent figured out how to get the poly count in Blender yet, Im just doubling the face count in my head:p I know Im less than double the count because there are several tri's already from adding the ribs.

abaser
03-12-2012, 12:22 AM
Quick question for the vets. The vstab on this plane should be as seamless as possible. All of my other models have had a separate vstab, but if I try to separate this one, a visible seam appears. Am I opening myself to troubles by leaving it a part of the fuse when it comes to the physics once it's in RF? Or should I deal with the seam and go the conventional route?

flexible
03-12-2012, 08:45 AM
Most of my models do not have a separate MMVS. If it is included in the Kex, it will be included in the wire frame of the fuse.

abaser
03-12-2012, 12:03 PM
What is your method for adding the rudder?

Madratter
03-12-2012, 12:38 PM
I also have been doing the Vertical Stab as part of the fuselage with the rudder separate. If you look at my latest EA for the Yak, you'll see how I do that.

I think whether it is best to do a separate Vertical Stab depends in part on the kind of aircraft. In the case of a foamy, there is basically little or no benefit to doing them separately. The airfoil for the vertical stab is the same as you would use for the airfoil for the fuselage as a whole.

With other planes, I think it is more debatable. In your case, the bottom half of the vertical stab is essentially an extension of the fuselage and is well modeled by being part of it. The top half on the other hand isn't and perhaps would benefit from separate treatment, although depending on the airfoil you choose for the fuselage, it might matter little in terms of actual behavior.

Boof69
03-12-2012, 12:44 PM
Its beneficial to separate the vertical stab. It will give more control over the physics model. The fuselage airfoil is not sufficient to account a vertical component. I would separate them if it were me.

Madratter
03-12-2012, 01:15 PM
Unquestionably separating it does give more control. I would be interested in how exactly Knife Edge breaks down the fuselage for modeling the physics. This isn't the first time I have wondered about it.

What is so interesting about the fuselage in particular, is that unlike the other pieces like the wings, the fuselage is represented exactly in the physics model visual. I'm curious to what extent that is eye candy and to what extent it actually matters in terms of the physics modeling they do.

There are certainly nuances of wings that they are missing because they don't do the exact modeled profile. The wing on my Yak is an example of that.

Hab
03-12-2012, 01:52 PM
Looks good Andy. Proportioned rite. Unlike an S-2 with an S-1 canopy. (like I had mentioned earlier)
But , yes ... if the vertical could be made part of the fuse, it would definitely
set it apart from others.
These pics you've shown aren't bad as far as the vertical joining the fuse thow.
Looks ok. At least it doesn't look like a vertial fin stuck to the top of a boxed fuselage.
It'd be a cumbersome area when covering the real thing. (framed up R/C ...not an ARF)




QUOTE=abaser;223883]Ive gotten most of the modeling done, I believe. All that I see that's left is the connections for the aileron rods, center top wing supports, spinner, and the tail gear. Just out of curiosity, can I assume the aileron rods would connect just as a servo arm would? These are much larger than the ones on my late hog bipe, but that's how it connected.

Hab, here are some close ups of what I have. let me know what you think.

As of right now, Im somewhere just below 12k polys. Since I havent figured out how to get the poly count in Blender yet, Im just doubling the face count in my head:p I know Im less than double the count because there are several tri's already from adding the ribs.[/QUOTE]

Boof69
03-12-2012, 02:06 PM
Unquestionably separating it does give more control. I would be interested in how exactly Knife Edge breaks down the fuselage for modeling the physics. This isn't the first time I have wondered about it.

What is so interesting about the fuselage in particular, is that unlike the other pieces like the wings, the fuselage is represented exactly in the physics model visual. I'm curious to what extent that is eye candy and to what extent it actually matters in terms of the physics modeling they do.

There are certainly nuances of wings that they are missing because they don't do the exact modeled profile. The wing on my Yak is an example of that.

MR notice that a fuselage, detachable item, and a movable pod all will result in the actual shape of the object showing in the wireframe. Both the fuselage and detachable item allows for you to assign an airfoil for the side profile and the top profile. Neither airfoil can define the exact shape of the fuse. You can only get it close. Neither will account for the vertical stabilizer. Adding the vertical as a wing is the only way I know of to get the rudder right. Unless you add it in a movable pod. If all the parts of the model were added as detachables the exact shapes would represent the model but wouldn't be very accurate because of the airfoil calculation. I think the small problem of a seam is acceptable so the physics will setup correctly.

abaser
03-14-2012, 12:14 AM
Not a lot of progress, but here are a couple requested modifications. Tomorrow, hopefully Ill get to do some quality work on the cowl.

Hab, I know this isnt the tail gear that you sent a pic of, but it's one I have used in the past, and it's close. Will this one work, or would you like me to create the one you sent? Up to you, it's your bird;)

Boof69
03-14-2012, 12:15 AM
Beautiful work on the tailgear. :cool:

abaser
03-14-2012, 12:19 AM
Wish I could take credit. I believe junkboy999 posted it in the repository. I do like this setup.

Hab
03-14-2012, 09:18 AM
Tail gear....Interesting.... I like it ! Will those springs expand as real ?
I know , I know ....... lol asking to much :D I do like that set up though, that looks nice.

2nd pic ~ aileron linkage; will you be able to couple with horns? If so, the horns would be on the hinge line, just like a rudder or an ele. control horn. If you use
a DuBro horn; like the one shown, angle would be towards the hinge side. Straight edge towards T.E

3rd ...can I kick the tires? Look good Andy... could you put the "Firestone" script on the wall ? :D ...... (kidding !)

Ah, it isn't just for me Andy, for anyone else also ;)
A few pics to show. The aileron control linkage , ( drawn picture) is a little exaggerated, they're in the wrong area for one, should be at the hinge line, and the control link is to long, but gives you the general idea of the set up using DuBro / Hanger 9 ... etc control horns.

Looking good Andy ! Thanks

Wish I could take credit. I believe junkboy999 posted it in the repository. I do like this setup.

abaser
03-16-2012, 11:56 PM
I finally made it back home from a couple days of working out of town. Spent most of the night with the family, but I did manage to get most of the cowl work done. I think all that is left in this area is the exhaust cutout, and of course, the exhaust:p

Hab
03-17-2012, 09:22 AM
Awesome!



I finally made it back home from a couple days of working out of town. Spent most of the night with the family, but I did manage to get most of the cowl work done. I think all that is left in this area is the exhaust cutout, and of course, the exhaust:p

abaser
03-18-2012, 02:09 PM
By far my best render yet:D

Madratter
03-18-2012, 02:13 PM
Looks great. :) Have you figured out unwrapping multiple objects to the image in 2.62? It was driving me absolutely buggy. I think I finally figured it out.

abaser
03-18-2012, 02:26 PM
Having only done one model in Blender, Im still unsure about the whole thing, but this is how I was advised to do it. However, if you have done naming, pivots, or hierarchy, you will lose it if this is followed.

If I remember correctly, you first select all parts to be mapped. Hit Shift+ D to duplicate and click to cancel movement. Now move those parts to a different layer by hitting M and selecting a layer position in the popup. After you map all of the parts, join them together and open the UV editor. All parts should be shown if the map has been setup correctly. Arrange to your liking and save the image. If everything goes as planned, delete the original parts and move the duplicated back in place and separate.

Boof69
03-18-2012, 08:00 PM
Very nice Andy. :)

Maj. Numbskully
03-18-2012, 08:05 PM
And to think 14 months or so ago he could barely even make a CS
Nice to have witnessed the progression andy:D:D

Boof69
03-18-2012, 08:07 PM
I could tell with his first model he would be very good at this. Told him so too. The modeling is very solid on this one from the looks of it. Tip-o-the hat.:)

abaser
03-18-2012, 08:12 PM
And to think 14 months or so ago he could barely even make a CS
Nice to have witnessed the progression andy:D:D

(warning: the following post is a mushy attempt for an ego boost. If mushiness makes you're stomach churn, please read on.)

Maj., if it weren't for you, I would never have made it this far. CSing was just the beginning, and you made that happen for me. THANK YOU!:D

Then Jeff stepped up when thew modeler in me came out. Between him, Flex, and Boof, they somehow found a bit of talent in me. Without you guys, I'd still be dreaming. thanks to all involved.

(this ends in 5 gallons of tears of joy.)

Maj. Numbskully
03-18-2012, 08:18 PM
LOL...........I bet your wife hates me:p

abaser
03-18-2012, 08:19 PM
You're not the only one.;)

jeffpn
03-18-2012, 08:21 PM
I wonder who she hates more!!

abaser
03-18-2012, 08:23 PM
Dont turn this into a competition Jeff.

jeffpn
03-18-2012, 08:23 PM
Lol. I'm sure I'd win hands down!!

abaser
03-18-2012, 08:25 PM
She does threaten to throw my phone at times.:p

abaser
03-21-2012, 12:06 AM
A few renders for hab for review.

Is the bottom shot getting close to where you want it? Much more, and Ill have to really rework the fuse, so I thought Id ask before going further.

Hab
03-21-2012, 08:34 AM
A few renders for hab for review.

Is the bottom shot getting close to where you want it? Much more, and Ill have to really rework the fuse, so I thought Id ask before going further.

Man! Nice work Andy! ..... I'll toss you a PM to go over a few things :D

jeffpn
03-21-2012, 08:55 AM
That reminds me - my employee review is today. I sure hope my boss likes my performance. I wonder what things he'll want to go over? I hope we both get a raise, Andy!

abaser
03-22-2012, 11:14 PM
Well, I took a break from modeling tonight to try something new. I found a better render engine for Blender and Ive been trying to get things setup and running. This is just a quick and dirty sample of things to come in the future (if I can get the settings right:p). Its still very rough looking, but Im liking what I see already.

Second shot is in the editor view. There is a setting so you can see the rendered object while editing. However, my computer is too slow to use this feature. For every transformation, the window re-renders.

abaser
03-24-2012, 09:17 AM
Still playing:p

Hab
03-24-2012, 12:39 PM
Still playing:p

Pah durple Pitts :rolleyes:

abaser
03-26-2012, 12:09 AM
Got some more details done. Ive gotta run back through my punch list, but modeling is almost complete.

Hab, let me know what you think about the canopy frame.

Hab
03-26-2012, 07:57 AM
Got some more details done. Ive gotta run back through my punch list, but modeling is almost complete.

Hab, let me know what you think about the canopy frame.

Wow! Looking good. ;) Canopy framework looks nice. I like the
pushrod exit guides. (Are those DuBro or Hanger 9 pieces? :D) Thats a nice touch. I'm thinking the rods 'n control horns
are a little under size, but I know you mentioned they eat a lot of pollies up.
You gonna do what you had mentioned with the cowl openings?

Looks awesome ! nice job Andy! ...you're getting into this one eh? I've always been partial to the Pitts.

abaser
03-26-2012, 08:52 AM
Increasing the horn and rod size is doable. Scaling the size doesn't affect the poly count at all. As for the exit guides, those are courtesy of abaser products:p.

The cowling, well, I haven't really made up my mind yet. I will probably go ahead with my plans, but we'll see.

And I get into all of my models. :D My Blender abilities may just be getting better;)

abaser
03-26-2012, 07:24 PM
At Hab, Besides the support wires, Is there any other details you would like to see on this model? After getting a surprise on my poly count today, I went back through things and found several duplicate parts:confused: Seems to happen to me a lot, but I got rid of them and got another surprise. Im a whole lot lower than I expected to be. Red circle shows the tri count at present state.

And I could probably lose another 800-1000 if I really wanted to.

Boof69
03-26-2012, 07:46 PM
I really like the way you modeled the vertical stab and the rudder. Very nice.;)

abaser
03-26-2012, 08:08 PM
Why, thank you. I saw that method on a very helpful tut not too long ago.

Hab
03-26-2012, 10:37 PM
At Hab, Besides the support wires, Is there any other details you would like to see on this model? After getting a surprise on my poly count today, I went back through things and found several duplicate parts:confused: Seems to happen to me a lot, but I got rid of them and got another surprise. Im a whole lot lower than I expected to be. Red circle shows the tri count at present state.

And I could probably lose another 800-1000 if I really wanted to.

All I can come up with is addressing the cowl openings a little.
Other than that, nothing. You can add flying wires if you'd like, but not nescessary.
Maybe a switch harness / charging jack on the fuse side ?

abaser
03-27-2012, 12:20 AM
A few small touches:D

Boof69
03-27-2012, 09:14 AM
Having fun with those renders much.:) Looks great.

abaser
03-27-2012, 09:27 AM
He he he.........ya, these only take a second to do, and they look so much better. At this stage of the build, why not?:D

abaser
03-29-2012, 11:56 PM
A few......non rendered shots;) for Hab.

jeffpn
03-30-2012, 06:13 AM
Your wires are too small. The .kex exporter is going to have fun with those!! :D

abaser
03-30-2012, 07:15 AM
Ok.....:p

Hab
03-30-2012, 08:15 AM
A few......non rendered shots;) for Hab.

;) ..looks good ! Nice work Andy!

Hab
03-30-2012, 08:21 AM
A few......non rendered shots;) for Hab.

;) ..looks good ! Nice work Andy! You gunnah be doing that "bubble" at the cabane / top wing area?

abaser
03-30-2012, 08:51 AM
I will probably do that, and call this one done as modeling goes. I will shoot you some final pics when I get that done to go over before I start mapping.

Hab
03-30-2012, 09:21 AM
I will probably do that, and call this one done as modeling goes. I will shoot you some final pics when I get that done to go over before I start mapping.

Cool :D ... Thanks Andy!

abaser
03-30-2012, 11:57 PM
A few final renders. Ill get back to this in a couple of days, and start mapping. But first I have to figure out what's going on with the wing bottom. I haven't noticed that until this post.:confused::confused:

abaser
04-02-2012, 12:19 AM
Just thought I'd say, I HATE MAPPING!!!!:p

2hrs in, and Ive only gotten the wings, fuse, and h stabs done. Hopefully the rest will go much smoother though. Another reason modeling wing ribs may not be worth it, you create small faces that can easily get missed when mapping.:D

abaser
04-03-2012, 11:58 PM
Ahhhh...........familiar territory again.:p Ive gotten more done in an hour than I did in almost four in Blender. It would be nice to be able to map this way there. Oh well:D

maxkop
04-04-2012, 04:28 AM
TIP: Use the average island scale option in the Blender UV-Editor. This way, you UV-Islands will be scaled according to the three dimensional space they are taking up on you 3D-model. As I can see from your screenshot your wing faces are taking up less texture space than your ailerons or fuselage faces. It would also be easier for you to map the wing faces from the top together with the ailerons so you can easier texture the whole wing surface...

Greets,

Max

Madratter
04-04-2012, 10:46 AM
While I have no intention of moving away from Blender back to Wings, I am curious what it is about mapping in wings that is so much easier. I have only mapped in Blender.

jeffpn
04-04-2012, 11:32 AM
I have only mapped in Wings. It's easier. (See what I did there?)

Madratter
04-04-2012, 11:41 AM
I have only mapped in Wings. It's easier. (See what I did there?)

Well I understand that obviously mapping for me right now would be easier in Blender and for you would be easier in Wings. But Andy tried doing the mapping in Blender and just couldn't get it to work for him. So I am curious specifically what he finds easier about Wings. I'm sure he would have preferred to stay in Blender because there are some real advantages (not having to rename your objects, ability to do pivots in the same program, etc.)

Sometimes something is just inherently easier in one program than another. I'll give an example. In wings, it is really easy to find the volume of objects. In Blender, not so much. When creating the physics for my Yak, I exported back to wings to do that. (I used the results when creating my physics for the model).

abaser
04-04-2012, 11:47 AM
The big issue for me at the moment is how Blender beaks the islands apart with angle degree. There are also other issues, but time is sensitive right now and I can't get into it, but I will when I get a chance.

abaser
04-05-2012, 07:18 AM
I managed to finish getting all parts mapped. Now for the fun part, aligning the map. Any volunteers? :p

Hab
04-05-2012, 07:44 AM
I managed to finish getting all parts mapped. Now for the fun part, aligning the map. Any volunteers? :p

Wish I could help ya ... :confused:

abaser
04-05-2012, 07:59 AM
Hehehe..............I ask for help there on every model. I've yet to find anyone to do it. Just one of those things. Show me a modeler who enjoys it.:D:p

jeffpn
04-05-2012, 08:27 AM
I'll tell you all I know about mapping if you can spare a few seconds.

Madratter
04-05-2012, 08:49 AM
I managed to finish getting all parts mapped. Now for the fun part, aligning the map. Any volunteers? :p

Aligning the map? Maybe this is something I do as I go. What do you mean?

abaser
04-05-2012, 09:09 AM
Arranging the part layout on the map, then fine tuning so the letter boxes line up. That allows for easier coloring for stripes or graphics that may cross over more than one part.

Madratter
04-05-2012, 10:54 AM
Arranging the part layout on the map, then fine tuning so the letter boxes line up. That allows for easier coloring for stripes or graphics that may cross over more than one part.

Ok. Yeah. I do that as I go.

flexible
04-05-2012, 10:57 AM
http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25989&page=9
post 135 and 136, this is one of the processes I use.

abaser
04-09-2012, 07:38 AM
Just a quick update. Mapping is complete, finally. Now it's back to blender for pivots and parenting.

Hab
04-09-2012, 07:56 AM
Just a quick update. Mapping is complete, finally. Now it's back to blender for pivots and parenting.

Thanks for the update :D

abaser
04-09-2012, 06:50 PM
It's not pretty, but after a quick check of part alignment, this puppy is starting to look a LOT better in my eyes with a little paint.

abaser
04-09-2012, 10:28 PM
Ok Hab, Your call. In looking at reference pics, Ive seen three variances of the bottom of the wings. All have the sunburst on the tops, but which bottom do you want to go with? Also notice that the wing bottoms also transfer to the V stab as well.

abaser
04-09-2012, 11:42 PM
Here's a little progress shot.

Hab
04-10-2012, 12:00 AM
Ok Hab, Your call. In looking at reference pics, Ive seen three variances of the bottom of the wings. All have the sunburst on the tops, but which bottom do you want to go with? Also notice that the wing bottoms also transfer to the V stab as well.

I like the 1st pic, diamonds on the bottom of the upper and lower, 3 diamonds on the rudder. Sunburst pattern on the top of both upper and lower wings. "Red Devils" ..... Just sent 2 pics of "Charlie Hillards" "N9J" over for you. ;)

Hab
04-10-2012, 12:02 AM
Here's a little progress shot.

Yeah, I'm liking this already :D

abaser
04-10-2012, 11:59 PM
Well, it's not a lot of progress, but it's progress. got the H stab tops done, and the wing bottoms done.

Maj, you got any tips on cleaning up this Pitts logo? It looked good when I brought it into Gimp, but when I shrank it down, she got all pixelated. This is an area that I have never really got a grasp on. I usually end up creating my own printed graphics, but this one might be a little difficult to do.:p

Jeff, where's the settings to get my renders larger than a postage stamp?

Boof69
04-11-2012, 12:36 AM
I worked this up for ya. I put it on a green background for easy selection.

dhk79
04-11-2012, 05:40 AM
Maj, you got any tips on cleaning up this Pitts logo? It looked good when I brought it into Gimp, but when I shrank it down, she got all pixelated.Not sure with mapping in Wings, but with MAX I take just the area with the graphic and map it larger to contain more pixels right where I need them. The rest of the part remains mapped at a lower resolution, so as not to take up too much area on the map. There should be a similar ability in Wings.

abaser
04-11-2012, 07:17 AM
Thanks guys. Boof, that one is much better. Still a little blurry, but without remapping, I think it's about as good as it'll get.

jeffpn
04-11-2012, 07:21 AM
Here.

abaser
04-11-2012, 07:35 AM
:oD'oh:o Think that's about the only place I didn't look.:p

abaser
04-11-2012, 11:56 PM
With little time to work on this tonight, Not much progress, but it is progress.

Hab
04-12-2012, 04:28 PM
With little time to work on this tonight, Not much progress, but it is progress.

The "Pitts" logo came out good .... hey, is that flag politically correct? :p :D

As JJ use to say ... LOOOOOOKIN' GOOOOOOD!

dhk79
04-12-2012, 04:43 PM
hey, is that flag politically correct?It is on this side, don't know about the other. Stars always go forward...

abaser
04-12-2012, 05:00 PM
Taken care of;)

Hab
04-12-2012, 05:25 PM
Taken care of;)

I hope you didn't remove that !

abaser
04-12-2012, 05:36 PM
Just saying the other side is flipped, stars are forward.

Hab
04-12-2012, 05:40 PM
Just saying the other side is flipped, stars are forward.

Long as they're not up side down ... :eek:

abaser
04-12-2012, 06:02 PM
Just so we're clear:p

Hab
04-12-2012, 06:40 PM
Just so we're clear:p

Ah jeez ... still looks crooked :confused:

abaser
04-12-2012, 06:49 PM
:confused:

Hab
04-12-2012, 06:57 PM
:confused:

..... :d

abaser
04-12-2012, 08:09 PM
Top, left and right sides are pretty well done. Now for the bottom, front, and some other small details, then some bump n shine:D

Hab
04-12-2012, 08:15 PM
Top, left and right sides are pretty well done. Now for the bottom, front, and some other small details, then some bump n shine:D

Doing the diamond on the cowl... between the two horizontal stripes?

abaser
04-12-2012, 08:18 PM
Well.....ummm.......ya. Part of the "other small details":p

Oops, I knew I was cluttering this thread with pics for some reason.:o

uncle twist
04-12-2012, 09:04 PM
"Small details" sounds familiar to me :D .Looks good Andy ;). Thank God there are`nt any of those pesty stripes that need correcting :eek:

abaser
04-12-2012, 09:06 PM
Hehehe...........one of the joys of doing your own model. If it's broke, you can fix it. Well, fix it easier, anyway:p

abaser
04-18-2012, 11:50 AM
To whom it may concern. This project is currently on hold due to technical difficulties. A few nights ago, I lost around 2 hours of work on my .psd due to a freeze up in gimp (stupidity on my part,i know, for not saving more often). Since then, any time I try to save my work, gimp greys out and freezes, losing all work. A complete uninstall/reinstall has failed to solve this problem.

So, I'm out of ideas and am throwing my hands up. Open to suggestions, and willing to pass on my files to select ones if interested.

Madratter
04-18-2012, 12:16 PM
To whom it may concern. This project is currently on hold due to technical difficulties. A few nights ago, I lost around 2 hours of work on my .psd due to a freeze up in gimp (stupidity on my part,i know, for not saving more often). Since then, any time I try to save my work, gimp greys out and freezes, losing all work. A complete uninstall/reinstall has failed to solve this problem.

So, I'm out of ideas and am throwing my hands up. Open to suggestions, and willing to pass on my files to select ones if interested.

Andy, is the problem that any file will freeze gimp, or is the problem that this specific file freezes gimp?

abaser
04-18-2012, 12:19 PM
I'll have to get back with you on this. I haven't tried another file yet.

abaser
04-18-2012, 01:35 PM
Ok, I've played around for about 20 minutes here. Other files will save. However, in this 20 minute time, Ive had 3 random freeze ups, forcing me to ctrl+alt+delete to close gimp.

Madratter
04-18-2012, 01:45 PM
Ok, I've played around for about 20 minutes here. Other files will save. However, in this 20 minute time, Ive had 3 random freeze ups, forcing me to ctrl+alt+delete to close gimp.

I hate to tell you this, but it sounds like a computer problem. If I had to make my best guess, it would be that you have a memory stick that has developed issues. Get a memory checker, and run it. Programs like gimp can end up using a lot of memory and will often show problems before your other stuff will.

Another likely candidate would be if you have changed your display driver recently.

[Edit: And another thing - one thing that has definitely changed recently is the weather. Is it possible the computer is running much warmer than it has been?]

abaser
04-18-2012, 01:52 PM
I was afraid you were going to say that:(

abaser
04-18-2012, 02:17 PM
As a last ditch effort, I went to my computer properties and opted for a disc cleanup. It shows 14gb could be cleaned. I'll check again tonight.......fingers crossed.

abaser
04-18-2012, 11:11 PM
After a complete reinstall, disc cleanup, and many other things, I think I've got things back going. Here are a couple progress shots.

Hab
04-19-2012, 12:03 AM
After a complete reinstall, disc cleanup, and many other things, I think I've got things back going. Here are a couple progress shots.

Save this one in a file :D See you've got the pants done. Looks like you've got this one just about wrapped up .... Stickah's ? :o

abaser
04-19-2012, 12:04 AM
Workin on em:p

Hab
04-19-2012, 12:05 AM
After a complete reinstall, disc cleanup, and many other things, I think I've got things back going. Here are a couple progress shots.

Hey, Didn't notice at first ...front canopy frame loop is gone :confused:

abaser
04-19-2012, 12:08 AM
No biggie. Ill fix it tomorrow. :o

Good eye

Hab
04-19-2012, 12:08 AM
Workin on em:p

Looks cool Andy ... bet you'll be glad when this ones done, eh?

Hab
04-19-2012, 12:10 AM
No biggie. Ill fix it tomorrow. :o

Good eye

faw's better 'n two ;)

Madratter
04-19-2012, 07:57 AM
Glad to hear you got it sorted. Make real sure you have good backups elsewhere though.

jeffpn
04-19-2012, 09:06 AM
I think telling people to make sure they have backups is like telling people they should quit smoking.

Madratter
04-19-2012, 10:05 AM
I think telling people to make sure they have backups is like telling people they should quit smoking.

I think you're right. Still, it is reasonably easy now compared to what it used to be. You can get a Terrabyte or larger external hard drive for very little. And some of them come with back up software.

I don't back up constantly or on a schedule. But I do backup when there is something important that has changed, for example a new set of vacation pictures from my camera, a new model completed, taxes done, etc. I set my backup software, go to bed, and when I wake up in the morning, it is done.

jeffpn
04-19-2012, 10:31 AM
You can get nicorette also, or hypnotism, or any other measure. People know how easy it is to back up hard drive content.

abaser
04-19-2012, 10:32 AM
Well, in my case, the only thing my computer is used for is my modeling, and my kids play games and watch you tube videos. I admit, I rarely back up anything because theres not much to backup.

dhk79
04-19-2012, 10:51 AM
While a backup is nice to have, you also have to be sure that the backup will actually work when it is needed. This is especially true with Win 7 which has a small partition that you do not normally see. This partition, however, stores the boot sector and drive configuration and without it a new "replacement" drive will not be able to receive and use your restore from backup. So whatever backup software you use must be able to fully restore to a blank, unformatted drive.

Hint - What comes packaged with Win 7 won't do that and the average user won't figure that out until it is too late.

jeffpn
04-19-2012, 11:23 AM
I've always been able to restore W7 backup files when needed.

Madratter
04-19-2012, 12:04 PM
If you want to go with a minimal system for modeling, get yourself a yahoo or gmail account. The modeling files are typically not very big, and mail yourself a copy every so often. That way, if the computer does go Kablooey, at least you have something.

Especially in this case, that seems prudent. Yeah, yeah, it is still like telling someone they should quit smoking.

abaser
04-19-2012, 12:36 PM
What about backing up the backup?:p

dhk79
04-19-2012, 12:37 PM
I've always been able to restore W7 backup files when needed.Files are usually fine, but MS Backup will not restore a drive.

EDIT: A full backup and recovery system will allow you to recover from a totally crashed, smoked, or otherwise destroyed drive. It will have separate bootable media that can start the computer and run the recovery program to partition and format a new drive and then FULLY recover all structure and data, as if there was never a change to the hardware. With MS Backup, you have to reinstall Windows before you can even think about restoring files. Then if you do a "full" restore, you can still have an issue with user accounts. Not insurmountable, but a pain.

dhk79
04-19-2012, 12:42 PM
What about backing up the backup?:pIf you want to. I sort of do that, but I'm weird and have dual external drives that I alternate. About the only extreme I do not go to is to have off-site storage for my backups in case of fire. I figure if my house burns down, everyone else can join me in my pain.

Boof69
04-19-2012, 02:53 PM
I have an internal drive and an external drive besides the boot drive. I also have a program called super flexible backup. It allows you to setup an infinite amount of backup jobs. They can be scheduled for specific times of day or there is a play button to run all jobs whenever you think of it. I use the play button and have instant backup scheduled for computer shutdown. I backup the documents folder, since that's where every file resides, to the secondary internal and external drives. I format the boot drive every 6 months then move the documents back and all is good. 3 locations is as good as I can do. When I think about it I back up really important files to my website, but that's not often. The real big thing to remember is to ctrl+S as often as possible.

flexible
04-19-2012, 03:27 PM
I like it already.

abaser
04-19-2012, 03:36 PM
Glad to hear you got it sorted. Make real sure you have good backups elsewhere though.

You see what you've gone and done?!?!:p

Madratter
04-19-2012, 04:06 PM
You see what you've gone and done?!?!:p

What was I thinking? :o

abaser
04-20-2012, 09:51 PM
Well, My lighting is off considerably on these, but you get the idea. CS is near completion. I think all I lack (for now anyway:p) is the bottom of the h stabs.

Hab, Ive seen a few different ways of doing them, diamonds, sunburst, and 2 parallel lines running from fuse to tip. How say ye do I need to go there?

Next up, the _n map.

Maj. Numbskully
04-20-2012, 10:08 PM
I say diamonds ......:rolleyes::confused:

abaser
04-20-2012, 10:17 PM
Diamonds.

Maj. Numbskully
04-20-2012, 10:47 PM
:pIt's a 10 ! .......of diamonds

Hab
04-21-2012, 08:20 AM
Well, My lighting is off considerably on these, but you get the idea. CS is near completion. I think all I lack (for now anyway:p) is the bottom of the h stabs.

Hab, Ive seen a few different ways of doing them, diamonds, sunburst, and 2 parallel lines running from fuse to tip. How say ye do I need to go there?

Next up, the _n map.

2 Lines would be OK ... Think that's what the Devils had.

Hab
04-21-2012, 08:24 AM
Diamonds.

Woops ... didn't see this post .... :confused: Diamonds it is :D

Hab
04-21-2012, 08:29 AM
Diamonds.

Oh yeah Andy, this shot shows it ... like how you've done the split
elevator with 2 rods. How it should be done. :D

abaser
04-21-2012, 10:01 AM
2 Lines would be OK ... Think that's what the Devils had.

Either way is fine with me. It's no big deal to change them out if you prefer the stripes. Let me know.

abaser
04-21-2012, 12:56 PM
Stripes.

Hab
04-21-2012, 01:30 PM
Stripes.

Diamonds ;)

abaser
04-21-2012, 01:32 PM
Diamonds it is. Anything else that you see? If not, Im going on to the _n.tga.

Hab
04-21-2012, 01:37 PM
Diamonds it is. Anything else that you see? If not, Im going on to the _n.tga.

Ah, nope ....Looks great .... ;)

abaser
04-22-2012, 10:56 PM
Ok guys, I exported everything from wings as a 3ds. Then I imported into max (yes, I said max) and everything seems to have come through fine. However, I forgot to separate my objects. So I go back and do so and reexport. Nothing that is mapped comes through, only baked goods.

Ok, So I try an obj. Things come through just great, so I thought. Notice the object rotate gizmo thing-a-ma-bob. my axis orientations are totally wrong.:confused:

My second may be a result of Blender flub ups, Ill double check shortly, but the 3ds thing is confusing me.

jeffpn
04-22-2012, 11:00 PM
One thing I can say - the Wings export option for .obj may be set up to swap Y and Z already. No need to swap again on import. That cancels it out. Wings, as you know, has the Y and Z axis swapped. You can swap on export, or swap on import, but not both.

I don't know about your baked goods issue.

abaser
04-23-2012, 07:44 AM
Thanks Jeff. I missed that option on import. But the 3ds thing still haunts me as I now realize not all my baked goods are there either.

I'm starting to have a little deja vu (spelling:confused:)here.

jeffpn
04-23-2012, 07:50 AM
Check your part names. If they are too long, they'll get truncated. If they end up the same as each other, they'll import as multiple copies of the same part. Ask me how I know.

And you won the spelling bee. ;)

flexible
04-23-2012, 08:18 AM
Good catch, Jeffery.
It help in the name length, to leave off the ~CS_ until in Max, then C/P to all while they are still lined up in a row, before linking. Setting up pivots in max is very simple.
The sooner you kick Blender to the curb, the sooner you're life will feel normal. Model in Wings, Map in wings, move on to Max. You'll cut you're total time per model down by 1/3.

Boof69
04-23-2012, 08:46 AM
Model map parent pivot name in max and save the most time right Andy? ;)

abaser
04-23-2012, 08:52 AM
Well, I can't attest to it yet, but I'm beginning to think so. Flex has problems with exporting from max, and I seem to have problems exporting from wings. I'm giving max a try, and will let you know:D

jeffpn
04-23-2012, 08:59 AM
I have had no problems modeling and mapping in Wings, since understanding the limits of export file types. I model exactly as fast as I care to model.

Boof69
04-23-2012, 09:04 AM
Jeff we all know your the exception.

jeffpn
04-23-2012, 09:46 AM
All I'm saying is that there's no problem inherent in modeling and mapping in Wings, and then exporting to Max, as long as you know how to do it. I'd hate for anyone to think that you can't get a good model by modeling in Wings. If someone would prefer modeling in Max, that is what they should do.

abaser
04-23-2012, 09:57 AM
All I'm saying is that there's no problem inherent in modeling and mapping in Wings, and then exporting to Max, as long as you know how to do it. I'd hate for anyone to think that you can't get a good model by modeling in Wings. If someone would prefer modeling in Max, that is what they should do.

I hope no one takes me the wrong way. I'm very pleased with my wings models. I just have problems getting them to export correctly, and it's probably just me. If I can eliminate that step for myself, I'm all for it.

jeffpn
04-23-2012, 10:28 AM
If you want to model in Max, do it!

Boof69
04-23-2012, 10:38 AM
I am in no way trying to say wings is not capable of making a great model.

jeffpn
04-23-2012, 10:40 AM
Wings can make great models! I've made several! ;)

flexible
04-23-2012, 10:41 AM
What ever floats you're boat. Wings is user friendly. Max is like trying to get a drink from a fire hose, to quote a fellow modeler here. For folks doing this as a Hobby, Max may just be to over whelming to model in. You would not go to a wood shop to build you're RC model plane.
I only export from wings using 3ds. I don't have any probs. there as long as I don't break any rules. I had problems exporting from Max 8, after importing parts of the file after the fact. Newer versions solved that. Watch naming closely, as Max will truncate long names, down to total of 10, including spaces and dashes.
My preference is to work from a desk top folder, just so I can find it faster. Make sure all paths are point there per model.
Things to watch;
10 caricature names
everything for one model in one folder, from start to finish, without moving it's location.

Boof69
04-23-2012, 11:41 AM
I've drank from the max hose and I still have my lips. It's all about what your willing to spend time learning. I think it's more of a "teaching an old dog new tricks" scenario. If you look at max as a whole meaning it's modeling, animating, rigging, physics, and rendering capabilities then it may seem very complicated, but when you strip it to just the tools you will use for modeling for RF you will quickly see it's power and simplicity. I certainly wouldn't want any of you guys to push away potential max modelers either. As a user of Max I assure anyone considering this software that it is NOT like drinking from a fire hose. It's simply a more powerful modeling platform and inherently is more complicated than Wings. I would argue that the learning curve is much less than in Blender.

jeffpn
04-23-2012, 11:50 AM
Well, I can't attest to it yet, but I'm beginning to think so. Flex has problems with exporting from max, and I seem to have problems exporting from wings. I'm giving max a try, and will let you know:DThis is the post I'm speaking to. To the casual observer, including those who may be considering trying to learn to model, it may seem that you'll have problems if you model in Wings and then export to Max. That is just not true. I've seen issues, but as I learn functions in Max, I avoid problems.

I don't care what programs people use to model. Each person needs to decide for himself where his comfort level is.

abaser
04-23-2012, 11:58 AM
I've drank from the max hose and I still have my lips. It's all about what your willing to spend time learning. I think it's more of a "teaching an old dog new tricks" scenario. If you look at max as a whole meaning it's modeling, animating, rigging, physics, and rendering capabilities then it may seem very complicated, but when you strip it to just the tools you will use for modeling for RF you will quickly see it's power and simplicity. I certainly wouldn't want any of you guys to push away potential max modelers either. As a user of Max I assure anyone considering this software that it is NOT like drinking from a fire hose. It's simply a more powerful modeling platform and inherently is more complicated than Wings. I would argue that the learning curve is much less than in Blender.

In my own opinion, and having worked in all 3, blender is the most challenging. Once you get started in max, there really isn't much difference than wings. It's mostly different in layout, and selection methods. Now mapping is yet to be determined as I have not ventured there yet.

Boof69
04-23-2012, 12:05 PM
From what I've read about mapping in wings (from the other modelers) and max are completely different animals when it comes to mapping. If you start fresh without experience in another program I don't think mapping would seem too difficult, but starting in wings then moving to max for mapping will probably be a bit disconcerting. The same probably could be said for going from max to wings.

jeffpn
04-23-2012, 12:08 PM
I don't think mapping in Max would be overly difficult. I've done just a bit of it.

willsonman
04-23-2012, 03:04 PM
Well now... off topic are we? over a page and not one mention of the model in question... what was it? Oh yeah, a Pitts... wait thats where you guys were headed right? (note massive sarcasm here)

abaser
04-23-2012, 03:13 PM
Funny how that can happen sometimes. :D

abaser
04-26-2012, 10:44 PM
Ok, after a couple days treating myself as Jeff's avatar trying to fix problems I caused by importing/exporting from every program imaginable, I had a brainstorm to import direct from Blender to max. Ill have to figure out mapping there, but Im willing to give it a try. To my surprise, Max recognized my smoothing groups from Blender:D I have noticed a couple things I have a question about.

I imported as an fbx, and I seem to have a couple parts duplicated. Is that a normal thing, or have I somehow doubled my geometry?

Next, the bottom of my fuse has this strange look to it. Any ideas what's causing it?

flexible
04-26-2012, 10:51 PM
When you use the B word, you loose me, hehe.

abaser
04-26-2012, 10:52 PM
Hopefully, it that word will all be in the past very soon;)

Boof69
04-26-2012, 11:22 PM
I'd need more pics from other angles to tell what's going on there.

abaser
04-26-2012, 11:29 PM
I figured out the bottom. After playing around a bit, I rotated the model in the scene. Its nothing more than shadowing form lights that come through in the import.

As for the duplicated parts, only the parts that I mapped in Blender were doubled. No baked parts. I deleted them and am now back to my original poly count.

Scott, I sent you the first import file. Would you mind taking a look at to see if everything looks good before I continue on. Mind you, I have since deleted the duplicates, 3 views, lights, and cameras that transferred over.

Boof69
04-26-2012, 11:53 PM
I'll take a look in the morning for ya. I thought that just looked like lighting.

abaser
04-27-2012, 08:14 AM
Before I get to mapping, Ill take some time to reduce polys a little. I forget that while building this one, ngons were not able to be used. Therefore, there are a ton of unneeded polys, especially where I modeled the wings.

Scott, for adding thickness to my TE, I deleted the rear verts, bridged top and bottom edges, then extruded and scaled those to get my result. Seeing that I have only bridged faces before, can I assume the edges work just the same?

Second pic shows a left and right comparison oh how Blender does things. 5 bonus points if you can tell which side is which:p

abaser
04-27-2012, 02:00 PM
Here's a better pic of the difference Im making in max. Notice the LE and TE polys. Ive cut out about 60 per wing thus far.

jeffpn
04-27-2012, 02:12 PM
Modeling the tautness, eh? Interesting concept, but I don't think I'll do it again.

Boof69
04-27-2012, 04:12 PM
I 'like how your doing everything so far. You can get rid of a bunch more by deleting the red edges and adding the green ones in that order as shown in pic.
You may know this trick but highlight one edge from each edgeloop to be removed then click loop then ctrl+backspace. That will remove all of the verts involved as well. Then you can select two verts and click connect for error free results.

Boof69
04-27-2012, 04:16 PM
You can loose even more on each wing with no ill affects.

Boof69
04-27-2012, 04:31 PM
You can see that your optimized wing can be optimized a bit further. If you click 2 verts then click the collapse button they will fuse into a single vert at a mutual center along their shared edge. Turn on edge constraints and straighten up the resulting verts.

abaser
04-27-2012, 05:07 PM
I hadn't thougt about that. I'll look into it tonight.

Boof69
04-27-2012, 05:27 PM
Hope you don't mind me pointing that stuff out. :o

abaser
04-27-2012, 05:35 PM
I'm always open to suggestions. Especially when learning something new.

abaser
04-27-2012, 11:40 PM
Maybe I did something wrong here, but after collapsing the verts you mentioned on the LE, I get these stepped shading areas that I cant get rid of. SGs arent doing anything, and Ive checked for extra verts that need welding, but things seem to be checking out ok. Box selecting only selects one vert. Any ideas?

Boof69
04-28-2012, 05:18 AM
Send me you current max file.

abaser
04-28-2012, 11:25 AM
Check your inbox.

Boof69
04-28-2012, 12:49 PM
I'll check it out in a few.

Boof69
04-28-2012, 08:26 PM
Here ya go Andy. Since you sent me your file I thought I'd set up some pre-CS renders. I guess this one could be the enter the dragon CS for the Pitts. Like Beetlejuice said "Nice freakin model"

abaser
04-28-2012, 08:30 PM
Nice!!

a4magic
04-28-2012, 09:43 PM
With the reflective surface, it looked to me like the vertical stableizer was see-through.

abaser
04-29-2012, 12:47 AM
As some of you may know, I like renders:p Boof was kind enough to send me his render setup so I could check it out, and I started playing around a bit. Here is a render/detail collage just for kicks.

abaser
05-05-2012, 12:31 AM
Finally, I have all parts mapped. Now to pack them into a workable .tga:D

abaser
05-05-2012, 04:48 PM
At least my CS work isn't completely lost. I was able to use it as the background for my map. Im currently lining things up as closely as possible to the original. It's not perfect, but I can fix that later.

abaser
05-07-2012, 07:17 AM
Hmmmm..............I managed to set these up in the time it would have taken to do just the top wing in Blender:D Much mo betta!!!!

Hab
05-07-2012, 07:58 AM
Hmmmm..............I managed to set these up in the time it would have taken to do just the top wing in Blender:D Much mo betta!!!!

Yep... looks good. Hey Andy, just a quick observation ... tail wheel coupled with the rudder?

abaser
05-07-2012, 08:00 AM
It will be. I've only gotten control surfaces done at the moment.

abaser
05-11-2012, 11:39 PM
Ok, so Im working on pivots. In checking that Ive gotten all of them done, I come across this. These two X axis are pointing opposite each other, but the rest are pointing the same direction. I hit the reset transform, but nothing happened. Is this something to worry about?

Boof69
05-11-2012, 11:50 PM
Select the object with the mirrored pivot and unlink or unparent. Then transform the pivot and adjust and finally reparent.

abaser
05-11-2012, 11:53 PM
I'll look into it, but I haven't parented anything in that area yet to my knowledge.

abaser
05-11-2012, 11:59 PM
Ok, my memory isn't as good as I think it is.:o Problem solved.

Boof69
05-12-2012, 12:00 AM
Well the long fix goes like this.
Create a box its pivot will be correct. Make it an editable poly and attach the offending part. The boxes pivot will override the old. Now got to element mode and select the box and delete it. Now all you need to do is center pivot to object and set it where you want it. This is a glitch in Max for many versions now.

abaser
05-12-2012, 12:04 AM
Well the long fix goes like this.
Create a box its pivot will be correct. Make it an editable poly and attach the offending part. The boxes pivot will override the old. Now got to element mode and select the box and delete it. Now all you need to do is center pivot to object and set it where you want it. This is a glitch in Max for many versions now.

WOW!!! You just explained the Blender process almost perfectly:eek: You just forgot the rotate object, then............ and rotate again.:p

Boof69
05-12-2012, 12:06 AM
Hmm I explained how to fix a known glitch. What does this do in blender?

abaser
05-12-2012, 12:11 AM
There are two ways I know of to set pivots in Blender. If you have to rotate a pivot in Blender, you pretty much have to do these same steps to set the pivots, if you use the shortcut. Its a lengthy process either way you go. The shortcut is very unreliable though.

Boof69
05-12-2012, 12:14 AM
Oh now I get it. Wow that's allot to do to set a pivot. Eww.