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Seasick007
04-02-2012, 02:49 PM
Would someone please make a true to life SIG rascal 40 and Giant sized, with and without floats? Disabled UAV pilot would greatly appreciate.

other fun projects I'd like to see;
Scan Eagle UAV

jeffpn
04-02-2012, 02:56 PM
Anything else?

opjose
04-02-2012, 03:14 PM
Tea and crumpets? :D

Kmot
04-02-2012, 06:25 PM
Yeah, do it. We want a Sig Rascal Forty! :D

pplace
04-02-2012, 10:34 PM
Yeah, do it. We want a Sig Rascal Forty! :D

I'd be willing to do it (40 sized), if someone can provide the 3-views and specs. I do have a Rascal 40 that I could get some smaller details from.

jeffpn
04-02-2012, 10:43 PM
I'd be willing to do it (40 sized), if someone can provide the 3-views and specs. I do have a Rascal 40 that I could get some smaller details from.
I'd love to help, but I don't have a Rascal. I only have a ruler and a scale.

opjose
04-02-2012, 10:47 PM
I'd love to help, but I don't have a Rascal. I only have a ruler and a scale.

But you ARE a "Rascal"? :D

Bada-ding.... "thanks folks I'll be here all week.".

pplace
04-02-2012, 10:48 PM
I'd love to help, but I don't have a Rascal. I only have a ruler and a scale.

Looking back, I see junkboy had one started (actually very far along) is he still around, or was that finished? I assume if not, he wouldn't mind if another was created?

I'd be more than willing to get all the pics, layout, etc. from my own plane. I just thought I would open it up for others to help. There are several people on this forum that work magic when it comes to locating information and pictures.

I think this would be a fairly simple model for me to "jump" back into. It doesn't have too many details that I would get lost / OCD on and never finish.

Who's in to help?

Edit: Obviously it woudl be a G4.5 upload, and someone else could do the G6 physics

Norton
04-02-2012, 11:09 PM
Here is a build thread that has some decent pictures: http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=895#photo%20shoot

http://www.sigmfg.com/BuildManuals/SIGRC80Rascal.html

I'll see what else I can come up with.

pplace
04-02-2012, 11:14 PM
Here is a build thread that has some decent pictures: http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=895#photo%20shoot

I'll see what else I can come up with.

Thanks, I did a quick scroll through and there appears to be some nice detail shots during the construction. Lets gather information / pics for a day or two. My wife works and I have a meeting tomorrow night, but the next day or so I could pull the plane down from storage (that plane doesn't get flown much anymore) and get any missing details not readily visible in pics that we find. If no good drawings or photos for the "outline" are found, I could try and take some for that purpose as well.

What would the preferred power plant be? Glow, electric?

Kmot
04-03-2012, 01:32 PM
What would the preferred power plant be? Glow, electric?

Four stroke glow turns my crank. :D

I have a ton of photos from when I constructed my Rascal Forty ARF, if any of those will help.

Norton, is that the View from the manual? I still have my manual some where and I could not remember if it had a 3-view or just that for color scheme adaptations.

http://www.fototime.com/D7E40F1B5680C34/orig.jpg

pplace
04-03-2012, 01:49 PM
Four stroke glow turns my crank. :D Well that's two of us. Besides gas (which I typically fly) I prefer 4-stroke glow on my smaller planes. I'll plan for stuffing a modeled 4-stroke in when the time comes.

Norton, I did also run across that photo later last night as well. it would certainly work if nothing else is found, but I wouldn't turn away a more detailed set of 3-views. (Plus it helps to have mine here to look at the smaller details)

Norton
04-03-2012, 09:26 PM
That"s all I've come up with so far. I'll se what else I can dig up tonight.

pplace
04-03-2012, 10:22 PM
Sounds good. Next question, does anyone have a profile of the airfoil or know any specifics about it?

To be 100% honest I don't even remember if my wing is a 2 piece, or if it's permanently joined. I still a 2 piece I could get an exact picture of the root rib. I hope to get the plane out tomorrow after work.

Norton
04-03-2012, 10:34 PM
I believe you you scroll down in the second link there are some foils there.

I don't know the airfoil number though.

pplace
04-03-2012, 10:39 PM
I believe you you scroll down in the second link there are some foils there.

I don't know the airfoil number though.

Ahh, I see you must have edited that above post and added that link. That is a good link, it helps give me a good visual of the internals, so I can incorporated the necessary areas into the model.

Junkboy999
04-04-2012, 09:01 AM
PPlace


Would you like the One I started? I have modeled the body and wings. I have a half rack of ribs in each wings, and some sticks in the fuselage. ( just in the area where the stock model is transparent ). It needs the H and V stab modeled so you can see the play wood layers.

I still might finished mine just for a few that still use 3.5.

Junkboy999

dhk79
04-04-2012, 09:34 AM
Dane,
To save you some time, that's a 10.9% or 11% airfoil with about a 6% camber and a flat bottom. So given the airfoil database in RF, I'd start with an N-11 airfoil.
Doug

pplace
04-04-2012, 01:41 PM
JB999: I appreciate the offer and will certainly keep that option open. For now, since I haven't done any modeling for a long time (my sportwin was the last modeling I've done) I'd like to start from scratch so I can "re-fresh" my skills....or lack of.

Doug: Thanks for the information, I'll put that to good use when the time arrives.

pplace
04-04-2012, 11:49 PM
Just an FYI.

I did get the Rascal out of storage and started on some modeling tonight. Started with some basics and have the main landing gear, wheel pants & wheels / tires finished.

pplace
04-06-2012, 10:28 AM
Another small update (no pictures yet sorry.....I know boring and worthless without pictures)

Last night I was able to get all the tail gear / wheel assembly as well as the outer h-stab skin completed.

Tonight I hope to start on the v-stab outer as well as the inner structure for both the h-stab and v-stab. At that point, it might be interesting enough to share a picture update.

Boof69
04-06-2012, 01:34 PM
How dare you post without pics? Chum-:D

pplace
04-06-2012, 08:49 PM
How dare you post without pics? Chum-:D

Sorry, I'll now try and redeem myself with some actual photo progress! Not sure if I'll get to some of the inner structure of the tail surfaces tonight, as we have some company coming over later.

I'm doing this project / build totally different than anything I've done before. I'm able to build it object by object, and take measurements & photos from a model in my possession (even for my Laser 200, I used online 3-views) I'm building and placing the parts in the appropriate locations, and am curious to see how they all line up / correspond to each other when more parts are added.

Boof69
04-06-2012, 08:52 PM
Wow that's different. Very nice so far.

Kmot
04-07-2012, 12:43 AM
Yeah, looks spot on!

pplace
04-07-2012, 12:52 AM
Thanks guys.

Change of plan after the company left.....instead of inner structure work on the tail, I thought it would be best to rough out the fuse to make sure all those bits floating in space had place to attach to correctly.

Shockingly everything there: spinner, main gear, tail gear and tail surfaces all fit into the fuse dimensions and profile picture I took of mine, with very minor tweaking! Looks like everything is fitting up nice and accurate so far.

Tomorrow I have to finish a could odds and ends for a little re-modeling project I did in my kitchen. Should get back on this project tomorrow night.

pplace
04-07-2012, 06:41 PM
Just a super quick update, plan to do some actual real modeling later tonight.

I dd the "cut out" / transparent panels in the side of the fuse. (note these will actually be done later on the alpha layer) However for now I did it:

1. It looks cool:p

2. It will help me determine where and how much of the inner structure is visible and needed.

Tonight I plan to take some photos of the wings and get them rough modeled. At that time the basic overall aircraft is complete, so I can go back and work on all the smaller details / inner structure.

pplace
04-07-2012, 10:00 PM
Slight change of plans (for now) Camera batteries were dead, so wasn't able to get the photos of the wings (yet) So I decided to get a start at carving out the inner structure for the v-stab and rudder.

Both are done as they are on the real model. Rudder is solid balsa with holes carved. V-stab is layered (inner core with holes, outer "skin" with slightly larger holes and a simple raised divider between the two holes to keep the monokote flat.

My oldest boy asked if I'd lay down and watch a movie with him, so I'll take a break to do that.

jeffpn
04-07-2012, 10:02 PM
Looks nice. Any chance of seeing some edge lines? what's your poly count so far?

pplace
04-08-2012, 12:06 AM
Looks nice. Any chance of seeing some edge lines? what's your poly count so far?

Thanks,

Here's a screen shot showing all the edges. I went overboard on the wheel pants, and plan to go back later and delete some unnecessary polys if needed....however on the other hand I enjoy looking at nice smooth shapes whenever possible.

As far as current poly count, it's been so long since I've used Wings3D that I don't remember how to obtain an accurate total. Overall I'm pretty sure I've used up a fair share so far.

Boof69
04-08-2012, 12:12 AM
No matter how you slice it wheel pants are poly eaters. You have two little poly banks there to make withdrawals from if need be later. They look good as does the rest of the model. Keep it up. :)

abaser
04-08-2012, 04:16 AM
Thanks,

Here's a screen shot showing all the edges. I went overboard on the wheel pants, and plan to go back later and delete some unnecessary polys if needed....however on the other hand I enjoy looking at nice smooth shapes whenever possible.

As far as current poly count, it's been so long since I've used Wings3D that I don't remember how to obtain an accurate total. Overall I'm pretty sure I've used up a fair share so far.

To get your poly count, in face mode, with all faces selected, tessalate> triangulate. The end result is your poly count.

jeffpn
04-08-2012, 07:21 AM
Wheel pants always take up polies on my models.

Everything looks so clean.

To get a poly count, combine all of your objects. In Face mode, select Tesselate|Triangulate. Looks like you have around 1,500 so far.

Boof69
04-08-2012, 08:40 AM
What are wing pants?

abaser
04-08-2012, 08:42 AM
I was wondering the same thing.:p

jeffpn
04-08-2012, 08:43 AM
I'm still having my coffee!!

And I don't know what you're talking about!!

abaser
04-08-2012, 08:45 AM
I'm still having my coffee!!

And I don't know what you're talking about!!

Quick editing;)

Boof69
04-08-2012, 08:57 AM
Quick question... Andy how did the lemonade drive go for the Toledo trip?

abaser
04-08-2012, 09:02 AM
Ummmm................So far, everything I've sold, I've also bought. That cuts profits down quite a bit:p Im afraid it's still a no go for me:(

Boof69
04-08-2012, 09:04 AM
awe...boo.:(

pplace
04-08-2012, 09:40 AM
Wheel pants always take up polies on my models.

Everything looks so clean.

To get a poly count, combine all of your objects. In Face mode, select Tesselate|Triangulate. Looks like you have around 1,500 so far.

Umm....:( I guess I need to do a lot of "clean up" and optimizing:o Right now as it sits I'm just at 9000! However keep in mind just for figuring that I duplicated the v-stab, rudder, h-stab and elevators just to get a rough figure for when I do the inner structure and outer skin.

I know I can clean up the wheel pants. I could also take away some polys on the rounded edge of the tail surfaces....I'd rather not do this as I already thought I was being fairly conservative there (I don't want a sharp / jagged leading and trailing edge on those surfaces)

I'm off to Easter now. I still think the plan is to keep modeling as I am, and later go back and remove / clean up when and where needed. At this point, it certainly looks like it's not going to have a visible engine! Sorry!

jeffpn
04-08-2012, 09:42 AM
Wow. That poly count is quite surprising!

pplace
04-08-2012, 10:02 AM
Wow. That poly count is quite surprising!

Yeah I was kind of shocked, but also knew I was using a good amount (probably due to lack of recent "practice") I just did a test and I can easily gain about 500 (not much in the big picture) from the tail surfaces with not much of a visual loss.

Like I mentioned above, one thing that is costing me polys is the flat slab balsa tail surfaces (I thought at first that would be a good thing) however all the outside edges on the real model are a "half round" On a normal airfoil you are only using polys at the leading edge to get the shape....now I need to double it to get the trailing edge round. Add to that the elliptical shape of the tail surfaces and that is why they ate up a ton. (not to mention all the inner structure work as well)

abaser
04-08-2012, 10:14 AM
http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showthread.php?p=224253#post224253

Post 138 shows a method Jeff came up with for doing internals that will save a ton of polys instead of duplicating the entire parts.

pplace
04-08-2012, 10:22 AM
http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showthread.php?p=224253#post224253

Post 138 shows a method Jeff came up with for doing internals that will save a ton of polys instead of duplicating the entire parts.

Took a very quick look at it....not sure I 100% understand the concept. I'll have to study / read it more thoroughly later when I have more time.

Thanks for the link though.

silverphantom72
04-08-2012, 10:23 AM
while your at it how about a nitro beef wellington?


sorry couldn't resist after the tea and crumpets lol

jeffpn
04-08-2012, 11:36 AM
Dane, if you're interested in the technique Andy mentioned, I can try to elaborate.

pplace
04-08-2012, 11:50 AM
Dane, if you're interested in the technique Andy mentioned, I can try to elaborate.

I just got back from church, now headed to the in-law's for Easter.....but was curious if your technique is sort of like "loop cutting" out a window which I would normally than bake in the transparency. The difference here, would be applying the "loop cut" window out and applying it to the TGA on the alpha layer? Or is it totally different than that?

Attached is a pic of the bottom of the h-stab to show what I'm dealing with. As you can see the elevator (and rudder) are solid balsa covered with transparent. The h-stab is actually built up of 3 layers (inner core and outer sheets) there is a "step" between the inner and outer cores. Obviously this is all covered by transparent.

I really want to do a nice balsa wood grain under the transparent obviously.

jeffpn
04-08-2012, 12:13 PM
Make the wing as you normally would, forgetting that there will be internals. Draw edges to represent where the internals are. Duplicate the wing, same size, same place. Hide the original. On the duplicate, one section at a time, select the upper and lower faces that will be clear, and bridge them together. Bridge only works on 2 faces, so interior edges will need to be deleted by hitting backspace before bridging. Continue the process until all clear areas are bridged, and the framework is all that remains. Then select the tops and bottoms of the ribs, and make them holes. Make all bones faces that won't be seen holes. The tops and bottoms of the ribs are actually on the main wing, which is still hidden, right? Note how the main wing has 2 different materials associated with it. The .tga also has alpha over the entire .tga. In RF, only the material called ~CANOPY responds to the alpha channel, as you know. See this file for an example. Unzip both files to the same location.

pplace
04-08-2012, 09:18 PM
Thanks for that test file Jeff. I certainly grasp the concept now pretty much. Would you (actually the Maj.) then paint the top and bottom of the rib on the exterior wing skin?

Since I currently have 3/4 of the tail surfaces completed how I already started, I think I'll continue with that process (barring I don't run out of polys....at that point I would re-do it this method) However, I think I'll plan to do the main wing ribs using this method.

jeffpn
04-08-2012, 09:32 PM
Yes, the tops and bottoms of the ribs are painted onto the main wing. And the beauty of it is that you can color outside the lines. Make sure you assign the ~CANOPY material only to the faces that will be clear skin. Give the rest of the wing another material. Each material is diffused with the same texture. Color the whole wing a solid color, and reduce it to about 10% Alpha, the whole wing. You'll see that the tops and bottoms of the ribs are opaque, and the clear panels are transparent.

I believe that this would be the lowest poly way to make bones. It also would have no z-fighting.

pplace
04-08-2012, 10:42 PM
I believe that this would be the lowest poly way to make bones. It also would have no z-fighting.

That is a good method. I on the other hand have found possibly the highest poly way to make bones!:D I'm gonna make an excuse for myself and say that the inner core "step" (the holes don't line up from top to bottom) through me for a loop, so I had to do it an overly complicated and wasteful way.....hope it works out in the end!

jeffpn
04-08-2012, 10:58 PM
That intermediate step down you did gums up the works for the method I described. Looks good, though.

Do you render inside of Wings? If so, let me know if you can do a render using an Alpha channel in the .tga to define transparency. I can't get that to work.

pplace
04-09-2012, 05:40 PM
That intermediate step down you did gums up the works for the method I described. Looks good, though.

Do you render inside of Wings? If so, let me know if you can do a render using an Alpha channel in the .tga to define transparency. I can't get that to work.

I only render my WIP's in wings (with no texture) I've never tried to render one once I've mapped and applied the TGA, (I do that in 3dsMax)

dhk79
04-09-2012, 07:37 PM
Do you render inside of Wings? If so, let me know if you can do a render using an Alpha channel in the .tga to define transparency. I can't get that to work.There is a shader script that Viennalex posted in the how to build your own models thread that allows Max to use the S_ & N_ tga files to render much as RF does.

jeffpn
04-09-2012, 07:59 PM
Interesting. Wings has the _N and _S capabilities built in, with a caveat: you have to install 1 of 2 rendering programs for the function to work.

Boof69
04-09-2012, 08:34 PM
Not really unheard of. Many 3rd party renderers exist to do a better job then the default renderer. There is vray for max among others. Both blender and wings use yafray for finer results. The key is in the materials themselves. Each material has attributes that can be controlled by external images. Opacity for instance. You can go to the opacity attribute and apply the regular tga for the alpha layer to control the transparency. Same scenario for bump and spec control using the _s and _n maps.
This would be a fun topic for Toledo Friday night. ;)

dhk79
04-09-2012, 08:56 PM
This would be a fun topic for Toledo Friday night. ;)With liberal amounts of whiskey on the side...

Boof69
04-09-2012, 09:04 PM
Whatever your poison.

jeffpn
04-09-2012, 09:31 PM
I still have brandy!!

pplace
04-10-2012, 11:16 PM
Wasn't able to work on the Rascal for a day or two, but finally was able to put some time towards it tonight.

I snapped some photos of the wings, took some measurements and loaded them up into the Rascal file. I now basically have all major exterior components modeled and set into place.

The transparent "cut-out" on the wings are just temporary again, this will be done in the alpha later. I added it now, so I can see exactly how much of the inner ribs / structure will need to be modeled....and also for some screen shots.

Currently I don't have any dihedral set up on the wings (does anyone know off hand what the stock dihedral is?) If not I can get my gauges out and figure off of my wings.

Right now with everything duplicated:

~2 Fuses
~h-stab & elevator exterior "smooth skin" & h-stab & elevator inner structure
~v-stab & rudder exterior "smooth skin" & v-stab $ rudder inner structure
~2 complete main wings

and singles of all the other components I'm sitting right at 12,000 polys

I duplicated the above components just to gain a better idea, I will actually be able to shave a fair amount of those polys away, when I actually remove the unneeded portions of inner structure that won't be visible. With that said, I'm still curious to see how many polys the wing ribs and inner fuse will take.

Boof69
04-10-2012, 11:28 PM
Man it looks very nice in it's outline and no shading issues. This should end up a real nice model.

pplace
04-11-2012, 01:29 AM
Thanks boof, I'm trying to do as good as I can on this.

My wife had to go work a night shift, so I thought I would continue working on this (now it's too late and I should have gone to bed a while ago!ha)

I've got all the wing ribs and caps completed. Only remaining structure inside of wing is the servo mounting rails.

Luckily the main spar and rear spar are only about a 1/4 out from the transparent opening, so I only needed to model the short middle section of the rib cord.

Edit: I notice I forgot to re-size the last 6 attachments I've added tonight. Be sure to click on the photo if you want to see it clearer.

Kmot
04-11-2012, 11:49 AM
Wow, it's really looking great! :D

Don't know if a head-on photo will help with the dihedral angle but here is one:

opjose
04-11-2012, 01:27 PM
With a semi-transparent colorscheme that will be one fine looking model.

pplace
04-11-2012, 04:10 PM
With a semi-transparent colorscheme that will be one fine looking model.

Thanks, I'm hoping so. With having no luck or experience with alpha layers in the past, I know my biggest hurdle is yet to come.

Boof69
04-11-2012, 04:18 PM
I'll help you with that if you hit a snag.

jeffpn
04-11-2012, 04:27 PM
Alpha layers aren't so tough. I actually know how to use them!

pplace
04-11-2012, 05:56 PM
I'll help you with that if you hit a snag.
You know I'll certainly take advantage of your help / offer (or anyone's)


Alpha layers aren't so tough. I actually know how to use them! That one gave me a good chuckle:D

pplace
04-14-2012, 01:09 PM
Just wanted to let everyone know I'm still here, just have had a busy end to the week so haven't had much time to put towards the Rascal. Should get back on it in the next day or so. Next task is to finish some servo mounts in the wings and get some stringers in the fuse.

Kmot
04-14-2012, 09:43 PM
Take your time. No one is rushing you. Good things come to those who wait. ;)

pplace
04-15-2012, 12:11 PM
Take your time. No one is rushing you. Good things come to those who wait. ;)

Careful giving me too much slack!haha

Started on the rear fuse inner structure.

Boof69
04-15-2012, 12:16 PM
Beautiful just beautiful.

Kmot
04-15-2012, 04:45 PM
Beautiful just beautiful.

Ditto!

pplace
04-15-2012, 10:22 PM
Thanks guys, really appreciate it.

~Finished off the forward inner fuse structure (didn't get as detailed here) I will most likely add the servos (behind the side windows) on the CS.

~Modeled the "dash" and added the roll bar "V"

~Modeled the wing servo hatches / push rod exit fairings as well as the servo mounting rails in the wings.

Currently with all objects selected for the current visual model I'm right at 13,500 polys. This includes inner and outer surfaces, but does not include the clean-up and deletion of some hidden surfaces that are not needed. It's certainly a high poly count, but I've added a ton of detail.

Still a lot to do, but things on my soon to do list are:

Control horns / push rods
Servos in wing (need low poly servo)

pplace
04-15-2012, 10:26 PM
Forgot to ask this question:

If I want to add holes to the wing ribs using the alpha layer, will the "thickness" of the rib be wood colored? Or would the inner edge of the hole be hollow looking in the finished product?

abaser
04-15-2012, 10:41 PM
Without inner faces, I dont see it being shown as wood. Im not good with the alphs layer, but if they are not there, they're not there.

As for a low poly servo, if you want this one, post #88 has one I use. Servo, arms, rods and horn only 432 polys.

http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24818&page=6

pplace
04-15-2012, 10:58 PM
Without inner faces, I dont see it being shown as wood. Im not good with the alphs layer, but if they are not there, they're not there.

As for a low poly servo, if you want this one, post #88 has one I use. Servo, arms, rods and horn only 432 polys.

http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24818&page=6


That was my thought as well....if that's the case the wing ribs might have to go without holes. That would have been a nice added touch to the inner structure, but I don't feel like carving out a bunch of holes (& polys) in each of those ribs. Each rib has two holes, and the inner two ribs on each wing has 3 holes.

maxkop
04-16-2012, 06:41 AM
Forgot to ask this question:

If I want to add holes to the wing ribs using the alpha layer, will the "thickness" of the rib be wood colored? Or would the inner edge of the hole be hollow looking in the finished product?

It will be looking hollow, depending on what material tag you are using (~SBS would do the job). But the inner cylindrical faces of the wholes are not modeled, so not visible and therefore you would directly see the faces of the ribs on the other side...

pplace
04-16-2012, 04:16 PM
It will be looking hollow, depending on what material tag you are using (~SBS would do the job). But the inner cylindrical faces of the wholes are not modeled, so not visible and therefore you would directly see the faces of the ribs on the other side...

Bummer, thanks for the info though. Well I'll see if at the end of the project I have room for them.....however I wouldn't be looking forward to carving all those holes in the ribs, unless I don't know the easy way to make them?

jeffpn
04-16-2012, 04:29 PM
There is an easy way to make them. But it's a poly hog. Grab a poly on each side of the rib. Inset, and smooth if you want it round. Then Bridge. That will create walls, at a price.

dhk79
04-16-2012, 06:31 PM
Inset to get the areas on both sides, then bridge to connect.

dhk79
04-16-2012, 06:32 PM
Jeff, beat me to it.

Junkboy999
04-18-2012, 07:18 PM
Looking Good PPlace

pplace
04-19-2012, 08:50 PM
Thanks JB.

Again, I'm still here just haven't had much for "updates" lately. I do have some additional clean-up finished as well as adding all the control horns for each surface.

Great progress I know....that's why there is no screenshot to go along with it!:p

pplace
05-07-2012, 10:50 PM
Sorry guys, I've been "gone" on this project but not forgotten. A couple life changes have pulled me away from this project for a bit.

My youngest son has decided it is now fun to climb out of his crib:D So in order to make his bedroom more "kid-proof" (is that possible?!haha) I've fast forwarded my plans of remodeling a room in our basement and am creating an official toy / play room for my two boys. i.e. less clutter (toys) for the youngest to get into when he decides to crawl out of his crib (now bed)

To add to that, I've also purchased a second house, and am also in the process of "freshening" it up. Second house:confused: well my neighbor's house came up for sale for a good price, and my ulterior motive (in the long run) is to get rid of the house (it's too nice for that now) and have a nice big yard where I can put up a nice large garage / workshop. Just don't tell my wife that reason!!:p

Kmot
05-08-2012, 12:03 PM
Yep, 'life' has a nasty habit of doing that to a person. :p

Good luck with your projects. Gotta keep the kiddies safe!

pplace
05-20-2012, 09:22 PM
Had to post this....

A friend of mine is moving back to the area from out of state. He asked me if I could help store some of his planes for a bit. As you can see I now have a nice pair of Rascals to look over!haha

I've managed to get closer to completion on my boy's toy room. I've finished drywall & mud, and was able to get the first color of paint on tonight. I've still got a fair amount of work to go, but I'm nibbling away at that project. I'd really like to get back to the Rascal model sooner than later.

Kmot
05-21-2012, 12:18 AM
You have a lot of nice wood in your place. :)

Boof69
05-21-2012, 12:29 AM
Inappropriate.:D

Kmot
05-21-2012, 11:52 AM
oops! :p

Kmot
11-01-2012, 07:18 PM
Had to post this....
I'd really like to get back to the Rascal model sooner than later.

Any updates to the Rascal Forty lately? :)

pplace
11-01-2012, 08:20 PM
Any updates to the Rascal Forty lately? :)

Hasn't been, won't be, can't be any more models from me. Here's a link to a post a while back briefly explaining why. I'd loved to have been able to atleast save that file / progress and send it to someone to finish it....but all was lost.

http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showpost.php?p=234435&postcount=31

Kmot
11-02-2012, 01:02 PM
Okay..... :(

dhk79
11-02-2012, 08:24 PM
Things have started to settle down for me a bit and I think I want to get back into RC, both in the Virtual world and in Real Life. In RL I want a Rascal 110 as the next plane I buy, so with Dane's permission/blessing, I'd like to proceed with doing one for RF. Kmot can then do an AV to scale it down to the 40 size.

jeffpn
11-02-2012, 08:29 PM
Woo hoo! Doug's back! :) :D

And kill the fatted calf!!

pplace
11-02-2012, 09:21 PM
Things have started to settle down for me a bit and I think I want to get back into RC, both in the Virtual world and in Real Life. In RL I want a Rascal 110 as the next plane I buy, so with Dane's permission/blessing, I'd like to proceed with doing one for RF. Kmot can then do an AV to scale it down to the 40 size.

Doug, you certainly have my permission.....not that you needed it!

At the time of the total loss of my computer / files, I was really bummed out about the loss of this project. I had put a lot of work into it, and really enjoyed creating all the internal structures that make this plane so distinct.

On several of my previous big modeling projects, I had at least saved the progress onto an external jump drive from time to time. Obviously I forgot to do that with this project.....tack that up to "getting back into the modeling groove" and just overlooking that important step. If I would of had any thing saved, I would have been more than happy to share it with you to give you a "head start"

I look forward to watching you tackle the project!

dhk79
11-02-2012, 09:45 PM
Thanks Dane, I haven't decided how I want to model the internals for the cockpit on this one. The wings are pretty straight forward with solid ribs.

dhk79
11-02-2012, 10:24 PM
Just getting started. Got the fuselage roughed out, but mostly I've been working on front panel section and wing braces that will be visible through the windshield.

Kmot
11-03-2012, 01:29 AM
Alright!! http://www.fototime.com/A93B05AC2E6E136/orig.gif

Madratter
11-03-2012, 08:49 AM
Just getting started. Got the fuselage roughed out, but mostly I've been working on front panel section and wing braces that will be visible through the windshield.

Welcome back. I loved your Pete n' Poke. I'll be looking forward to this one. :)

jeffpn
11-03-2012, 08:50 AM
I'll be looking forward to this one. Starting when? :p

dhk79
11-03-2012, 08:53 AM
Cockpit structure done. I plan on rounding window cutouts a bit more after I see how the poly count goes with the rest of the internal structure.

dhk79
11-03-2012, 11:28 AM
The internals for the Fuselage look to be about 1000 polys so far.

dhk79
11-04-2012, 11:20 AM
Skin's taking shape.

abaser
11-04-2012, 11:24 AM
Its nice seeing another build from you Doug.

Looking good so far.

dhk79
11-04-2012, 08:20 PM
All skins and the internals for main wings and fuselage are all done, with just shy of 4000 polys used. Next up internals for tail feathers.

jeffpn
11-04-2012, 08:22 PM
That's very efficient!

dhk79
11-04-2012, 08:54 PM
Dropping a Saito 130 Twin in the front (sans exhaust) brings the polys up to 11.3K

dhk79
11-04-2012, 08:56 PM
That's very efficient!I'm only including faces that can be seen, so the internal structure's a shell like a movie prop.

dhk79
11-04-2012, 10:31 PM
Spinner, cowl cutouts, exhaust tubes... Still need to model the intake manifold and carb for this engine, since much can be seen due to the size of the cut outs.

dhk79
11-05-2012, 04:48 PM
16,256 polys.

jeffpn
11-05-2012, 05:27 PM
I hope that's orthogonal view! :eek:

jeffpn
11-05-2012, 05:29 PM
Also, in April I'll show you how to render in Wings. I know you map in Max. Yesterday I brought some models back to Wings from Max just for rendering purposes.

Maj., someday I'll have to send you a CD of my render folder. It's a bit large. I know you have a few of them.

Kmot
11-05-2012, 06:11 PM
Floats? :eek:

dhk79
11-05-2012, 07:17 PM
Floats? :eek:I'll do a version with conventional gear too. But this one first...

EDIT: Just to prove that I'm not all wet, floats are an option offered by Sig for the Rascal 110. Rascal 110 Shown With Optional Floats RTF (Order No. SIGFK004ARF)

dhk79
11-05-2012, 07:18 PM
I hope that's orthogonal view! :eek:No, I like wings of different sizes. Makes it a real challenge to fly. :p

dhk79
11-05-2012, 10:41 PM
Linked and mapped, now for the Alpha Channel to allow for the transparent sections. Likely to be the most tedious part of the model to do.

Maj. Numbskully
11-05-2012, 11:05 PM
I'll disagree....I think thats the easy part;)
Looking real nice

Kmot
11-06-2012, 01:22 AM
I'll do a version with conventional gear too. But this one first...



Oh yes, I know the Rascal has been put on floats. I was just hoping for a fixed gear version and am happy you will be making one as well. Now it's the best of both worlds! :D

dhk79
11-06-2012, 01:55 PM
Keeping the fans happy...

dhk79
11-06-2012, 03:55 PM
A picture is worth a thousand words (many of them four letter ones)...

dhk79
11-06-2012, 10:02 PM
The hard part of the color scheme and model clean up have been completed.

Kmot
11-07-2012, 01:59 AM
Keeping the fans happy...

http://www.fototime.com/35F57C59C529234/orig.gif

:D

Kmot
11-07-2012, 02:02 AM
The hard part of the color scheme and model clean up have been completed.

Sweet lookin'!

Can you do a blue one too? http://www.fototime.com/81505A877F7B999/orig.gif

http://www.fototime.com/D7E40F1B5680C34/standard.jpg

willsonman
11-07-2012, 08:42 AM
Doug, you are a freakin' rockstar.

dhk79
11-07-2012, 10:56 AM
Can you do a blue one too? Should be a piece of cake to add the other trims. The over-all scheme doesn't change with the different colors, so a color change is all that's needed. I'll add blue, green, and purple so that'll cover all possible models of the Rascal.

Although you do realise that I'll be depriving some 12 yr old from posting multiple flood-fill CS files, but if I do it there won't be any bleed because the change will be made on the master template file.

U-Bird
11-07-2012, 12:34 PM
With everyone chomping at the bit to see your RASCAL posted, and have it in their favorite colors, I thought I would chime in and ask for one more item.
If you would be so kind, could we also have her as a static airport object as she would look GREAT, sitting on the flight line on someones AP or modified AP.
There are so FEW prop planes and models avalible as Airport Objects and Rascals are very pleasing to look at and even better to fly.
Thank You

Fly_electric
11-07-2012, 01:29 PM
Keeping the fans happy...

Will you be using the "engine to show" to provide something for E power users?

Thanks

And to echo some others, it's great to have you back Doug.

dhk79
11-07-2012, 01:33 PM
Will you be using the "engine to show" to provide something for E power users?I haven't done it yet, but that is the plan.

dhk79
11-07-2012, 01:35 PM
U-Bird, I'll need to add a static prop, but I'll keep your request in mind.

dhk79
11-07-2012, 09:34 PM
Here are all the colors. I think the shade of the green might be a little off, but what does the group think?

dhk79
11-07-2012, 10:20 PM
Here's the rendering in RF. Take a look at the green one.

Kmot
11-07-2012, 10:38 PM
The colors look pretty darn accurate to me!

U-Bird
11-08-2012, 01:25 PM
Doug, I have a BLUE Rascal, however it's about 7 or 8 years old. At our flying field, we have noticed color changes in the planes over the years. We have a Blue Rascal that is about a year old and it is a liter shade of Blue than mine. Mine seems to be VERY dark in comparison. Even the pained portions,wheel pants ect are darker, so your doing fine with the colors.
Thank you for considering my request for a static version.

Fly_electric
11-08-2012, 02:44 PM
Here's the rendering in RF. Take a look at the green one.

Don't know how to best describe it, but as you say, the green does seem a bit off.
A little too dark?

Perhaps these pics from the web taken in sunlight help will help.

dhk79
11-08-2012, 04:21 PM
Perfect Fly,
I too thought it was dark, but really didn't have a good picture of it.

dhk79
11-08-2012, 04:26 PM
BTW Looks like Kmot will get his wish. While working on the physics, I found I didn't have all of the specs for Sig's float kit. So I'll be releasing a stock landing gear version first, as I have all the numbers for it. Then it'll be easier to strip off the gear and add floats without worrying about 90% of the physics.

dhk79
11-08-2012, 05:31 PM
Here's a work in progress to look at. Physics are not really tweaked in, but they are pretty close.

Known issues:
Z-fighting on tail surfaces at distant views
Wheel pants not yet mapped
Spinner material not reflective enough
No decals on wings
3D model for the Saito still needs an intake manifold
Still need cowl inserts with engine to show feature
Pilot (if polys remain after above changes)

If you see something I haven't noted, please let me know.

Doug

Kmot
11-08-2012, 06:25 PM
Awesome Doug! Thanks! :)

Fly_electric
11-08-2012, 08:53 PM
Flies very nicely Doug. Great work.

It even does well on the slopes!

Kmot
11-08-2012, 10:23 PM
Doug, there is a stray red line on the top of the fuselage.

The plane flies heavy, to me, because I have a Rascal Forty. I think it makes sense though becuase this plane is indeed larger and heavier. Other than that, it flies well and seems like a Rascal to me. :)

I like the IP too. ;)

willsonman
11-08-2012, 10:30 PM
I'm pretty sure that is a photo of Doug's wife;)

dhk79
11-08-2012, 10:36 PM
Thanks gentlemen for having a look.

One more question. How's this green look?

dhk79
11-08-2012, 11:28 PM
I found the bloody red mark. It was only a few pixels and on a 4096x4096 map, it was very hard to find even when you knew about where it was.

Also for Fly_electric, here's the engine to show feature.

Kmot
11-09-2012, 02:33 AM
That electric nose would also work for the glow version 40 size because the engine is mounted inverted and mostly cannot be seen except for the exhaust stub sticking out. ;)

Fly_electric
11-09-2012, 03:58 AM
I found the bloody red mark. It was only a few pixels and on a 4096x4096 map, it was very hard to find even when you knew about where it was.

Also for Fly_electric, here's the engine to show feature.


The shade of green looks very good.

Thanks for the ETS!

It must be stray line day-- just discovered I have to track one down as well!

jeffpn
11-09-2012, 08:28 AM
That looks like a stray poly. I used to be plagued by those!!

abaser
11-09-2012, 08:41 AM
Funny you should mention stray polys. If you ever decide to open that EA I sent you, you can see I have that problem on my main gear mount.

dhk79
11-09-2012, 09:07 PM
OK, I've pretty much reached the end of my punch list. Has anyone else spotted anything that hasn't been mentioned?

Madratter
11-09-2012, 09:18 PM
OK, I've pretty much reached the end of my punch list. Has anyone else spotted anything that hasn't been mentioned?

It looked pretty good to me. If I was to do anything with it at this point, it would be to done down the white just slightly so it doesn't blow out with the new graphics engine. But really it looks good and flies well as is.

dhk79
11-09-2012, 09:36 PM
Thanks for the suggestion on the white, but that's already taken care of. The final scheme uses "Insignia White" for the main color not a pure white. I'm running it on the graphics engine with a new video card I just recently upgraded and it looks fine.

dhk79
11-09-2012, 10:06 PM
The Rascal is on the swaps. This is the first EA that I've done in a bit over a year. Felt good to get back into the process.

Doug

Madratter
11-09-2012, 10:16 PM
The Rascal is on the swaps. This is the first EA that I've done in a bit over a year. Felt good to get back into the process.

Doug

A little barnstorming was in order. :)

dhk79
11-09-2012, 10:21 PM
Now on to finish up the float version. Should be ready in a day or two.

abaser
11-09-2012, 10:22 PM
This is the first EA that I've done in a bit over a year. Felt good to get back into the process.

Doug
Yeah, you're a lttle rusty for sure. It actually took longer than 2 days from start to finish.:p:p

Maj. Numbskully
11-09-2012, 10:26 PM
I was gonna say
model , physics , and CS
I 1/8th the time I do the latter:p:rolleyes:
nice job again doug

dhk79
11-09-2012, 11:34 PM
Thanks guys. And if it makes you feel any better Maj, this scheme was extremely easy - no spectral or normal mapping needed (just some games with the Alpha Channel).

I have to say that my commute here around DC takes three times as long as my commute out in Arizona did. That really boils down to fewer hours each day that I can devote to goofing off (as my wife so kindly puts it).

Here's the float pre-release version to play with. The physics were a piece of cake. I just put the floats on it and assigned weights and it was perfect. Looks like I had calculated the float size and placement correctly when I modeled it.

Know Issues:
The pivot on a couple of the gear doors need adjusting
I think I want to add a bit of color to the floats

Kmot
11-10-2012, 03:04 AM
Doug, thank you for making this model. :)

dhk79
11-10-2012, 01:02 PM
I've put the float version on the swaps. Enjoy.
Doug

U-Bird
11-10-2012, 01:28 PM
OOOOHHHHHH Yea, SHE's a Rascal !!!! Thabks a bunch !!!

dhk79
11-10-2012, 02:16 PM
.40 sized AV on the way.

Kmot
11-10-2012, 02:51 PM
.40 sized AV on the way.

http://yoursmiles.org/bsmile/fun/b0228.gif (http://yoursmiles.org/b-fun.php?page=2)

Kmot
11-10-2012, 07:13 PM
Nuthin' like flyin' yer own plane at yer own field! :D

dhk79
11-10-2012, 08:49 PM
How's that AV compare to your real bird?

Kmot
11-11-2012, 03:21 AM
Actually, it feels amazingly similar. The real one has a slightly faster sink rate. But the general overall feel is quite accurate. :)

dhk79
11-11-2012, 08:23 AM
Thanks Kmot, that's good to know. If you'd like to work with me a bit we can get it dialed in exactly. Then I'll take what we learn and apply similar changes to the big one.

There are only a few things that can contribute to a higher sink rate, but we may have a combination here. The first of course is wing loading. Since the wings are to scale for the model, based on drawings from the assembly manual and pictures of the real plane, it could just be a difference in weight. I had the RF 72 at 5.6 lbs (with a full 8 oz. tank of fuel).
The second, and probably likely in my mind, is the selection of airfoils for the main wing. The actual airfoils are seldom listed in the specs, so I guessed based on rib cross-sections from the plans. Thickness is fairly easy to estimate based on length vs. height, but correctly getting the camber takes lots of measurements and math (and VERY accurate drawings). So from the note that the model uses "high lift" wings, I picked high camber airfoils that had a similar visual profile and could have easily over done it. Another factor leads me to believe this is a factor. I had to use more down-thrust than I would have expected to counter ballooning lift. so the wings could be generating more lift than needed.
The last thing that will effect sink rate is the CG location. If your CG is farther forward than as in the RF model, it will tend to have the higher sink rate.

EDIT: Give this one a shot. The only changes are lower camber airfoils, then reduced incidence on the horz stab and lowered down-thrust to compensate (rough changes, not performance tweaked).

Kmot
11-11-2012, 12:52 PM
I can assure you my plane is heavier than stock. I sure should have mentioned that, should have said "my plane" instead of "the real version". Mine has extra plywood and epoxy to beef the landing gear, has a relatively heavy Slimline pilot and mounting plate, has cardboard full interior panels and instrument panel, and has a home made onboard glow plug lighting system consisting of extra c-cell battery and battery holder and associated wiring, plus micro switch. It also has pin striping tape added to all color panels and 'nose art' stickers on each side of the model. Every gram adds up.

I will try the AV and see how it feels. but it may have been unnecessary because mine is heavier. Sorry. :o

dhk79
11-11-2012, 01:39 PM
No problem, I like the new airfoil better if only for the reduction in ballooning.

Kmot
11-11-2012, 10:05 PM
Doug, sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you on this. It's been a busy day with relatives.

I just flew both Rascal 72's back to back, and back again. The AV most definitely flies more like mine. The sink rate and the lowered 'floaty-ness' is much more like how I remember mine (it's been a couple years since I hauled it out to the field).

I like it! :)

dhk79
11-12-2012, 07:42 AM
New versions have been posted.

Doug

Kmot
11-14-2012, 12:43 PM
I deleted all previous test and swap versions and then downloaded and installed the latest newer versions.

Including the Blue color scheme.

For some reason, when I load the Rascal 72 it defaults to the red color and there is no option for the blue color. Same for Sig Rascal 110.

If I load the Rascal with Floats it defaults to the blue color.

In the previous versions I was able to select different colors, now I cannot.

Is this a function of the new versions, or did I goof something up? :p

Puzom
11-14-2012, 12:55 PM
Thanks for the Rascal model. Just wondering, did you see this http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9829840/anchors_9829840/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#9829840

Any option to add a Rascal Bipe version? Looks really sweet!

http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/thumbnails/208422/ki19693.jpg

Cheers!

dhk79
11-14-2012, 09:33 PM
Kmot,
The colors seem to be working correctly on my system, however, it is possible as I didn't upload re-exported CS files.

Is anyone else having this problem?

Doug

dhk79
11-14-2012, 09:50 PM
Odd, I just went to look at the swaps and the additional color schemes for the wheeled versions were not there. I could have sworn that I reposted them after updating the airfoil.

Kmot
11-18-2012, 12:35 AM
I'm a rank noob when it comes to modifying color schemes. So I spent some time today going through the RF users manual. It doesn't tell ya much about how to do a color scheme, only that you need to already be proficient in Photoshop.

I use Photoshop to edit pictures, so I know a little bit about using it.

I used PS to remove the graphics from your Rascal 110. I used the 'clone' tool to cover them up with the existing blue color. It looked like it was completely covered, in the PS editor. But when I opened the model in RF, I can still see the words, just that they are sort of ghost like.

Why does this happen? Is there something special, like being semi transparent in the sim, that my covering it in Photoshop did not completely do it?

jeffpn
11-18-2012, 12:41 AM
Don't forget to modify the _S and _N files, too.

abaser
11-18-2012, 12:43 AM
Since I'm looking at this on my phone, its hard to see exactly what is going on, but it sounds like maybe Doug used the _s map to keep the graphics from being washed out with glare. That would be my first recommendation.

Edit: you may also need to add done alpha to your addition.

Maj. Numbskully
11-18-2012, 02:29 AM
yes its ghosting from the _s.tga....you'll need to make those ares uniform as well
with 6.5 you may need to change the Alpha as well

dhk79
11-18-2012, 07:50 AM
This model did not use a _s or _n map, those ghosts are from the Alpha channel. You can fix it yourself but if it makes it easier I allways offer my master template to anyone who wants it.

Kmot
11-18-2012, 04:33 PM
Thanks guys but yer speakin' 'greek' to me. Sorry I do not know what and where to find S and N and Alpha tga files.

According to the RF manual it said:

1) Save a color scheme and name it something

2) Find it in your RF folder, and then open it in Photoshop.

That is what I did. I only edited the color scheme I saved and named.

*EDIT: Okay, I went to the folder and I did see some various "S" and "N" tga files for other schemes but nothing for the Rascal's.

dhk79
11-18-2012, 05:36 PM
This was such a simple job, I did it for you. Here's a Blue TGA without decals (or decal shadows). If you'd like to learn how to do this, I will be more thatn happy to help.

Remove the RFX extension and unzip the TGA, then rename as you want.

Kmot
11-18-2012, 08:05 PM
Thanks Doug!

So that is what was still showing, a shadow?

Maj. Numbskully
11-18-2012, 08:30 PM
Not really a shadow...
It was an area on the Alpha channel
that was either more or less opaque than the surrounding area

Kmot
11-18-2012, 09:00 PM
More greek.... :p

Okay thanks Doug, I have a new scheme now. :)

I do have more questions but instead of cluttering up your Rascal thread I will move it into the general forum area where everyone can beat me up er... I mean help if they want. :D