Great Planes Syncro

[jeffpn]

I think I'll take this one as our next build. It was requested here.

http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showpost.php?p=230889&postcount=427

[jeffpn]

The requestor needs to validate this thread. ;)

[opjose]

Jeff it appears you are talking to yourself again! :D

Dunno why that happens though?

I'd be happy to help with the physics.

[jeffpn]

If you'd like to be constructive, find or take some usable reference pics. That's what I'm waiting on.

I will keep that in mind, Jose!!

[plane guy]

here's some of the gear and inlets

[plane guy]

tail feathers and short wing

[opjose]

http://www.electrifly.com/ductedfans/gpma1581-wings-lg.jpg

[opjose]

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/reviews/1381/Xsyncro28.jpg

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/reviews/1381/Xsyncro29.jpg

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/reviews/1381/Xsyncro18.jpg

[jeffpn]

The requestor needs to validate this thread. ;)I haven't heard from the requestor, but I gotta push some pixels around. This will be next. I intend to start with a cube. I'll give it a rough shape and smooth it. I think that will work very nicely on this model.

[jeffpn]

Here's a rough idea of what I mean. The only difference between the two pics is that I smoothed it twice. This isn't final. I think the belly should be bigger, like my wife's. ;)

[Madratter]

Here's a rough idea of what I mean. The only difference between the two pics is that I smoothed it twice. This isn't final. I think the belly should be bigger, like my wife's. ;)

Ruh Roh. Better hope she isn't checking up on you. :eek:

[jeffpn]

I should have noted that the first pic is 104 polies, and the second is 1,664. That's still reasonable in my opinion. I could take out several loops if desired.

[Maj. Numbskully]

Ruh Roh. Better hope she isn't checking up on you. :eek:


jeff is a brave man I tell you ....a brave man

[Boof69]

How do you plan to handle the 2 different wing configuration? 2 separate EAs?

[Maj. Numbskully]

Engine to show ?

[jeffpn]

2 Seperate EAs. I believe that's how KE did the Switch.

[jeffpn]

My wife is very flattered you all have her back. And trust me, there's plenty left over!!! :eek:

[csgill75]

My wife is very flattered you all have her back. And trust me, there's plenty left over!!! :eek:

:eek:

[willsonman]

I think the belly should be bigger, like my wife's. ;)

Last I saw you yours could use a smoothing group as well Jeffy!:p

[jeffpn]

Poloes are at 2,328. There's alot of polies i could cut out, but I don't think I'll need to do that. There's not alot of detail in this model.

[jeffpn]

More fuselage work done. Polies are at 2,416.

[jeffpn]

2 complete Wings with cut ailerons. Poly coulnt is up 596 polies. I'd better be careful!!! :D

This model will be released as 2 EAs. One for each wing type. This is the soaring wing.

[oneder]

Its coming along nicely, your poly count will be so low you wont have to bother w/collision mesh;)

[jeffpn]

My first few models were like that. Then I started Boofing up my poly counts! :D

[Boof69]

Boofing up your polys?

[jeffpn]

Pushing 20k! ;)

[Boof69]

Hey MR does it too.

[jeffpn]

I would expect so! ;)

[Boof69]

eh.....:rolleyes:

[jeffpn]

Poly check: 3502

I need to slightly rework the tail. The vstab/rudder has a hole that the elevator goes through. I didn't notice that while making it. You reach a stopping point and you stop, right? It'll be an easy adjustment.

[jeffpn]

Here's a quick render. Base model is done. Servos are next. Polycount - 6,994

[abaser]

Hope you dont land that thing too hard. That gear is weak looking.

[jeffpn]

It's virtual gear. It's as strong as I want it to be!!!

[abaser]

No, no, no. It has to be realistic.:D

Ive got a small electric with similar gear. Best gear on any of my planes. They always spring back.

[jeffpn]

Here's the Sport wing. It was a toughie!! :D

[Boof69]

I dig those renders.

[abaser]

Smooooooth! Looking good man!

[jeffpn]

Thanks, guys!

[Madratter]

Here's the Sport wing. It was a toughie!! :D

Sculptor! :p

[jeffpn]

Sculptor! :p

You obviously didn't see me make it! ;)

[jeffpn]

At some point, I screwed up my servo arm. Who among us hasn't inadvertently affected other geometry before? (Very rarely do I lock geometry when I'm done with it. Bad habit, I guess.) Anyway, I freaked a bit when I noticed I have no earlier versions to revert to, and the servos for each wing type are 2 different sizes. Both have this issue, as one was copied from the other. I was trying to figure out how to fix this precisely. Then it hit me! If I extrude out the top of the sevo arm, the circular part, I can use the new faces as reference planes for the right click Intersect command. I could fix 4 edges at a time that way!

[Madratter]

At some point, I screwed up my servo arm. Who among us hasn't inadvertently affected other geometry before? (Very rarely do I lock geometry when I'm done with it. Bad habit, I guess.) Anyway, I freaked a bit when I noticed I have no earlier versions to revert to, and the servos for each wing type are 2 different sizes. Both have this issue, as one was copied from the other. I was trying to figure out how to fix this precisely. Then it hit me! If I extrude out the top of the sevo arm, the circular part, I can use the new faces as reference planes for the right click Intersect command. I could fix 4 edges at a time that way!

I never lock my geometry and maybe I should. But I am rigorous about keeping frequent backups.

[Boof69]

I don't worry about backups because I have max setup to do that every 5 minutes as an autobackup using 5 file slots. It has saved me from power outages and program crashes. When something like that happens I open the latest time code autoback and save over the working file name. I have never lost work but once and that was an unrelated issue.

[jeffpn]

Actually wings does save a .wings~ file automatically. I have used it before to recover something. In this case, it wasn't too difficult to fix the geometry myself. I wouldn't have lost more than a day's work, and I'm slow anyway!!

[jeffpn]

Like I said before, this model will be released as 2 EA files. There's just no good way to make two different wing types available for the same file. I was going to place the wings on the map so that the same .tga could place the stripes correctly, but the 'Syncro' text is different. No biggie.

To the original requestor (Hello, is this thing on?): The soaring model is pictured without gear. Is that how I should do this?

Opjose, what's your preference?

[jeffpn]

This will be interesting, from the Maj.'s point of view. Everything on the .tga files is in the same place, except obviously the wings. They'll have to be done for each model.

[mcphatty]

If you need any help with sound, I have a few videos on YouTube of the Syncro flying. If you already have that covered, keep up the great work!

[jeffpn]

Boof, or oneder, did you have issues getting the blades to show on the Zephyr's EDF? For the life of me, I can't show blades, and I don't think the spinner is spinning either.

[jeffpn]

Setting the prop type to Electric ducted fan makes the blades visible. Don't ask me!!

[Maj. Numbskully]

Aerocell texture applied.......................
no_n.tga or _s.tga

I'm not liking the way the texture gets completely washed out just by changing the viewing angle slightly in 6.5
Even the modeled gear mount gets washed out ? ....:rolleyes:

RF Contrast and brightness settings at default other (graphics card and monitor) settings unchanged

[Madratter]

Wow. You aren't kidding about the washout.

[Maj. Numbskully]

Making progress...
I think that the "just like daylight" feature (or what ever its called ) needs to be toned down some
it plays havoc with the textures

[jeffpn]

Have I ever told you that you make me look good?!?! :D

[Maj. Numbskully]

Talent on loan from God....................:p:rolleyes:

[Maj. Numbskully]

I take it that the canopy is a plastic Cover correct? ...just need to know so I can bump it a little

[opjose]

Maj.

Here are small easy to add details to the CS.

The wings attach with a single screw within a black plastic circular 3/4" washer at rear wing center.

The edge of the washer is 5/16" from the TE middle wing center.

The washer itself is approximately 1/16" sunk into the foam, which can be replicated with your foam bump map.

At the base of each of the landing gear is a rectangular black plastic fitting.

This fitting is 1 2/16" long x 1/2" wide.

The pushrods & control horns are all black.

[opjose]

I take it that the canopy is a plastic Cover correct? ...just need to know so I can bump it a little

The cover is black painted foam, with a plastic tab at the upper trailing edge canopy center.

The foam is the same as the plane.

BTW: The EDF spinner is also white foam not plastic or aluminum.

[Maj. Numbskully]

Thank you opjose
All planned....I was going to ask jeff to make the pushrods and horns black (they are baked in)
those horns are glued on ?

[Maj. Numbskully]

Thanks again ........foam look it will have then !
Is the fuse solid one piece or does the foam canopy actually come off ?

BTW: The EDF spinner is also white foam not plastic or aluminum.
jeff you need to map the spinner

[jeffpn]

I can make them black. The spinner is also baked. Do you want it mapped?

[Maj. Numbskully]

............Yes

[opjose]

Thank you opjose
All planned....I was going to ask jeff to make the pushrods and horns black (they are baked in)
those horns are glued on ?

Yup the horns are glued on with a keeper on the opposite side.

---


Is the fuse solid one piece or does the foam canopy actually come off ?


The Canopy comes off. Under it is the battery compartment.

[Maj. Numbskully]

opjose ....
Hows this? ....1 inch is not one inch on a 4096 tga ................so I'm kinda guessing on the size of the washer/screw , maybe a little small???

6.0 renders SOOO much better.............IMO

and my reference..

[jeffpn]

Not bad! (And that washer spans the 2 wing sections. On the CS, it's in 2 pieces!)

[Maj. Numbskully]

Ya That took a minute..... more like 90 !
to get them correct , it was not as easy as just butting them to the edge ..................I had to split the washer the screw and the indentation for the bump
I think the size is ok

Heres the painted foam canopy I still need to gloss the paint a little ....that is if RF6.5 will let me....:rolleyes:
jeff can you model that tab ?.I'll send you wip CS tonight
I found some real good reference picks you may not have
let me know

[Maj. Numbskully]

D'oh
Just realized I have to do it all over again for the other set of wings ! ......:rolleyes::p

[jeffpn]

I could model the tab if you show me what you want. It would require remapping the fuselage, at least the top piece. I didn't model anything about the canopy. My thought at the time was to have you put it in.

[Maj. Numbskully]

Let me think that over ..............it was hard to get the canopy lined up ,with the right curvatures on 3 fuse pieces.....its been nothing but aligning things today

[jeffpn]

I knew you'd want it that way rather than stretching.

[Maj. Numbskully]

I'm not complaining .............. a bad day CS'ing...............beats a good day at work anytime !!!

[jeffpn]

Jose, is this a good approximation of the tab on the back of the canopy? It is funny, the details you miss when you don't have the model in hand!

(Ignore the jaggies around the canopy edge - they will not be there when the Maj. touches up the new fuselage, not yet complete.)

[Maj. Numbskully]

For what its worth ..............I think it looks real good !

[jeffpn]

I didn't ask what YOU thought of it! :p

[opjose]

opjose ....
Hows this? ....1 inch is not one inch on a 4096 tga ................so I'm kinda guessing on the size of the washer/screw , maybe a little small???

6.0 renders SOOO much better.............IMO

and my reference..

That looks great, though you can see in the real model the washer is just a hair forward of where you have it.

[opjose]

Jose, is this a good approximation of the tab on the back of the canopy? It is funny, the details you miss when you don't have the model in hand!

(Ignore the jaggies around the canopy edge - they will not be there when the Maj. touches up the new fuselage, not yet complete.)

Yup, perfect.

[Maj. Numbskully]

I "Painted" the Foam :
Canopy , Fuselage , main Wings and H.Stab graphics

@ opjose is the text on the wing and V.stab also painted ?

@ jeff...yes that worked good do the same for the sport wing ....but can you do me a favor..........
if possible can you make the wing roots line up with the wing roots of the soaring wing...or is there a reason that they are a little off?
trying to avoid having to line up the screw / washer again but if its not possible to line up the wing roots .....I'll do it again

[jeffpn]

I'm not following. What do you mean by lining up the wing roots?

[Maj. Numbskully]

This is the sport wing .tga superimposed over the soaring wing
See how the sport wing roots don't quite go as far as the soaring wing roots
were you see orange is the difference

[Maj. Numbskully]

hang on ....let me try something


EDIT:
see what I'm getting.........this is the soaring wing CS on the sport wing EA

[Boof69]

If these are going to be separate EAs why not just make 2 CS? The wing would be the only difference between them.

[jeffpn]

It has to be 2 CSs, at least in name. RF doesn't like using the same name on a CS for 2 different files.

[Boof69]

I meant 2 different CSs

[jeffpn]

Maj., look at the position of the 'Syncro' on the wing of each plane. It's angled differently, located differently, and the stripes of each model are in different places.

[Maj. Numbskully]

I'm aware of the graphics differences ....that not a problem
But the root cord of each wing is the same is it not?
I just thought that the inside edges could be on the same line so the screw and washer could stay in the same place on both wings....they do both screw in to the same whole on the fuse
Is it because you need the horns and push rods in that particular spot and therefor cant move the sport wing ..if so ...I get that
If you cant do it thats fine , I'll make the adjustments

If these are going to be separate EAs why not just make 2 CS? The wing would be the only difference between them.
I wanted to keep both versions on the same .psd .and only have one layer each for the screw and washer for both wing versions

I figured that since they both screw in at the same place on the fuse and both wings appear to have the same root cord
that the screw should or I should say could be in the same spot on both CSs for both EAs...didn't want to have to reinvent the wheel .....no biggie....

[jeffpn]

I see now! I didn't know this was about the washer. I'll do what I can do. I should be able to have it done tonight for you.

[opjose]

I "Painted" the Foam :
Canopy , Fuselage , main Wings and H.Stab graphics

@ opjose is the text on the wing and V.stab also painted ?



The text really a decal, while the canopy and strips are painted.

Note that the canopy and strips have a thick paint applied, that means they are smoother and shinier than in your model. Your first canopy was closer to the real deal.

See if you can decrease the bump mapping amount in the canopy and stripes areas.

[jeffpn]

Maj., opjose,
How does this look? It's a 3/4" washer 5/16" forward of the trailing edge, per Jose's specs. (The screw color will look different in RF.)

[Maj. Numbskully]

I think that looks mahvalous

opjose ....What bump map ?...I have not yet generated an _n or _s.tga yet ...
thats all texture baby !

I think You think the screeny of the ACTUAL canopy is my work ...I only wish I were that good
I'll get'er done

[opjose]

Maj., opjose,
How does this look? It's a 3/4" washer 5/16" forward of the trailing edge, per Jose's specs. (The screw color will look different in RF.)

Looks good.

[opjose]

I think that looks mahvalous

opjose ....What bump map ?...I have not yet generated an _n or _s.tga yet ...
thats all texture baby !

I think You think the screeny of the ACTUAL canopy is my work ...I only wish I were that good
I'll get'er done

I was referring to the image in post # 71.

The image in post # 76 is far too bumpy. The paint on the real deal is applied pretty heavy, so it looks only slightly motled by the foam.

[opjose]

hang on ....let me try something


EDIT:
see what I'm getting.........this is the soaring wing CS on the sport wing EA

Ouch, why is the exhaust hole so small in that photo?

[Maj. Numbskully]

opjose
is there a electronics switch on the exterior some where ? I don't see one in any of the ref. photos I've looked at...or do you turn it on and off underneath the canopy?

[opjose]

opjose
is there a electronics switch on the exterior some where ? I don't see one in any of the ref. photos I've looked at...or do you turn it on and off underneath the canopy?

Nope no switches anywhere.

You turn the plane on by plugging in the battery pack.

BTW: I installed wing tip lights ( red / green ), landing lights on the LE of the wing close to the root, and a dorsal beacon light. I'm thinking off adding strip LED's to the wings for night soaring. I also have velcro under the left wing for a FlyCam2.

It would be interesting to model one with these additions.

BTW: Jeff, send me the pre-release finals before you post them. I want to adjust the downthrust workaround, unless KE comes out with a fix between now and then.

[Maj. Numbskully]

I can make you a second CS with the lights (of course non-working)
and the velcro bumped and painted if you like ...that is if jeff does not want to mess with them for a different EA
I'd like to keep the original EAs "Stock"
if so post some pics

[jeffpn]

I was thinking I could model working lights. I would've made the Syncro just like the requestor's Syncro, but he disappeared. Just as we made that Skywalker.

[Maj. Numbskully]

Good help is hard to find .....harder to keep around ! :rolleyes:

forget him its opjose's baby now

[jeffpn]

Absolutely! I wonder if lights would work under the Engine to Show. That's how we put the extras on the Skywalker. Best of both worlds.

[Maj. Numbskully]

Thats works for me

[jeffpn]

Jose, lights! (That is, some pics.)

[opjose]

Jose, lights! (That is, some pics.)

Sure Maj has also asked me for pics. I'll send them as soon as I have a chance.

BTW: check this out...

[jeffpn]

Well that solves that thrust line problem!! :D

[opjose]

Ok here are the pictures you requested.

My Syncro has well over 150 flights on it, so it is a bit scruffed up.

Click on the images to enlarge.

[opjose]

Note that I have tip guards installed.

Maj, only the tip of the plane is painted red, the rest are all decals.

[Maj. Numbskully]

Thanks
Does the sport wing also have that reinforcement ridge where I'm guessing the CF rods go through the wing from root to tip ?

[opjose]

Thanks
Does the sport wing also have that reinforcement ridge where I'm guessing the CF rods go through the wing from root to tip ?

Yup.

Actually that is just foam that doesn't seat fully.

The CF rods go under that. I ran the lighting wires next to the spars which is why they are slightly raised. The foam normally sits flush with the wing.

[Maj. Numbskully]

opjose
Are these CG marks on all of them ?..............or did you omit them on yours?

[opjose]

No they are not present.

These lines are suggested in the manual. The end user is supposed to put them on with a marker.

[Maj. Numbskully]

I'll add them

[jeffpn]

Does this please His Majesty? :p

[Maj. Numbskully]

Beeeeeeeutiful !

[Maj. Numbskully]

progress
Misc. dings and dents
wing transition bumped in
Slightly raised and gloss "painted" stripes
Slightly raised and glossier Text Stickers
panel line with a trace of glue in seams

I'm really not liking how when you look down a wing or fuse you get a very glossy look, even though its flat on the the spec map
I think the new lighting overrides anything on the spec at certain angles
it would be fine for a monokote or simulated metal modal but wreaks havoc on textures
Jeff and opjose I'll shoot you a copy to look at in the morning

[abaser]

Nice! With or without alpha?

BTW.........did you get my email?

[Maj. Numbskully]

With...........I get that same gloss down the side of the fuse with and with out a spec alpha channel thats why I think its the new lighting overriding it

yes I did but I'm fighting for comp time with sweetie ....if I can I'll go look now I promise

@ jeff check email and please send one to opjose , I don't seem to see his e-mail in my contact list ...at least under a name that I would recognize as his

[Boof69]

If you load up the rfx i made in the spec tutorial you would see that reflections can be completely removed. It's GIMP messin' with ya. Check the closest squares in the picture.

[Maj. Numbskully]

Thanks boof I'll do that tomorrow
did'nt get to it today

[opjose]

The Syncro is looking REALLY good.

Can you raise the specular reflection of the canopy a bit?

The real deal is shinier than what you have. Otherwise it's spot on.

In fact it's hard to tell that tail shot from the real thing. The foam and decals looks PERFECT!

A nice but subtle touch. THAT is how you do a 10 rating colorscheme... Kudos.

[jeffpn]

Maj., I don't see an email. I'll have the new EAs ready for you soon, maybe by the time you read this.

[Maj. Numbskully]

Weird .....I even got a conformation that said it was sent I'll re-send , maybe I sent it to my mom or who knows:p
@boof ....I got a rocket rfx from you ................Spec tut? Were is that ? EDIT maybe I read that notice wrong the RFX file has grown to a gargantuan 26.6 mb :eek:
will zip and resend ...looks like I'm going to need to make the normals files @2048 for this one when I'm done ...I think its all that texture

[jeffpn]

I once had a lady from church ask me what in the world an .rfx file was. Her name is Donna, and she is right next to Doug in my address book.

[Boof69]

I didn't resize anything. I assume that what's been happening is that the alpha channel hasn't been saving for you in GIMP. This would account for the change in file size. Also I may have not saved with rle compression. Should be an easy fix on your end. Spec video tut and rfx example found HERE! (http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showpost.php?p=237424&postcount=36)

[Maj. Numbskully]

It's GIMP messin' with ya. .
well surprise! surprise!:rolleyes::p


No... the rocket file you sent is fine (but just imported and have not looked yet)
the syncro is the monster , I did use rle comp. on the _Ntga but not the _s.tga

[Boof69]

I'm in a constant state of confusion. Sorry:o

[Maj. Numbskully]

Weird thing is , that each tga is 64 mb ...thats what they always seen to come out to?? (@4096)
I can't figure out why even if I zip it its 25mb??and yahoo is asking to send through a "large files" alternative

[Maj. Numbskully]

Hers something I've been meaning to askfor a long time ....Does the _n.tga really NEED an Alpha channel ?

I've never messed with it because I'm very Leary of gimp and don't want to break anything I'm working on but
I noticed in the normals plug in there is an option to alter the alpha...what effect does alpha have on a bump map ??

[Boof69]

No alpha is needed. You could open the n tga in photoshop and just save it as a 24bit rle compressed image. That way you won't need to worry about GIMP gimping things up.

[abaser]

As someone once told me, It's always GIMPs fault.;):p

Scott, just so we are looking in the same environment, open that RFX from your tut in the soccer field, CTRL+E, and rotate around the model. Where you have no alpha, things start to disappear at certain angles just like they did on my model. Maybe it's something on my end? Or is this a bug?

[Boof69]

It's something with your rig Andy. You really gotta get a new video card.

[jeffpn]

Send him one! ;) I sent one to a member before, and he killed it!! :eek:

[Maj. Numbskully]

QuickTime keeps crashing on me when I try to view that tut??:mad:

I made a copy of my CS opened it in gimp saved as the original but used rle compression on all 3 files
_ntga shrank to about 4mb
the _stga to around 35mb
the classic to 39mb
yet when I export them to rfx it got BIGGER than before by 1 mb to 27.5 ????
what up wit dat?

[abaser]

Maybe so. Here it is at Joes HD.

[Maj. Numbskully]

jeff looks I'm gonna need to send it through "big files" ....can't figure out why this CS is such a behemoth

[jeffpn]

Ok. Transferbigfiles.com is a good one.

[Maj. Numbskully]

opjose you asked me to make the canopy more shiny....why just the canopy would not the black stripes be the same as they are made of the same paint ???
btw...... I got the alpha PEGGED will send after the other half gets done on spacebook
THANKS ANDY FOR THAT TUT

[abaser]

THANKS ANDY FOR THAT TUT

No problem. For those interested, you can find the tut HERE (http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/showpost.php?p=238472&postcount=48) in the TOTD thread.

[Maj. Numbskully]

Got rid of that gloss when looking down the fuse
Bumped and glossed the canopy

[Maj. Numbskully]

I also reduced both normals to 2048 ,the bump between the wings is not as clean as it was before but I had to do something
jeff check your e-mail and please forward to opjose

[jeffpn]

Roger

[Maj. Numbskully]

Who's Rodger ?
It's Gerald..but I go by Gary
:p

[uncle twist]

AKA Ga3ry...:D:D:D:D

[Maj. Numbskully]

Actually it should be Gerry my mom has such a think German accent that she pronounced it Garry....so it stuck

[jeffpn]

I'll stick with "Maj." :p

[hilcat72]

Got rid of that gloss when looking down the fuse
Bumped and glossed the canopy

Looks Great

[opjose]

Roger

What's our vector Victor?

:D

----

And for the "Youngsters" here is the transcript...

---

Roger Murdock: Flight 2-0-9'er, you are cleared for take-off.

Captain Oveur: Roger!

Roger Murdock: Huh?

Tower voice: L.A. departure frequency, 123 point 9'er.

Captain Oveur: Roger!

Roger Murdock: Huh?

Victor Basta: Request vector, over.

Captain Oveur: What?

Tower voice: Flight 2-0-9'er cleared for vector 324.

Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.

Captain Oveur: Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?

Tower voice: Tower's radio clearance, over!

Captain Oveur: That's Clarence Oveur. Over.

Tower voice: Over.

Captain Oveur: Roger.

Roger Murdock: Huh?

Tower voice: Roger, over!

Roger Murdock: What?

Captain Oveur: Huh?

Victor Basta: Who?

--- Classic !

[jeffpn]

Maj., I guess I didn't realize that you put Alpha on the main .tga as well. The materials in this model aren't programmed to recognize Alpha, so it shows solid in RF. This is a working view from Wings. Weird. I wonder if this was KE's intent to get the required results in RF.

See how the text is faded in the render? And the canopy is completely gone in the working view!!!

[abaser]

That might be the alpha in the _s.tga. I've seen it do that in RF if you go too dark with the alpha. You might try removing that from your render.

[jeffpn]

You might try removing that from your render.Um, okay! :p

I just see problems trying to achieve a certain look by using Alpha in the main .tga, and simultaneously desiring a specific transparancy in the skin by adjusting the same Alpha as well. How are you overcoming that?

[abaser]

Very cautiously. The use of alpha in the spec map has definitely increased a level of difficulty, for me anyway.

[jeffpn]

We have crossed signals here, Andy. He put Alpha in the main map.

[abaser]

I stand corrected:p

Carry on with your question.:D

[jeffpn]

Well, I did say 'Main' in post #144, where I brought up my question. Carry on with your cranial-rectal inversion! :p

[Maj. Numbskully]

I usually never open the classic tga in gimp unless we are doing a model with Bones (thats where I work on alpha exclusively)
But I did open a classic tga in Gimp to use rle compression ...it never gave me the option to save it at 24 or 32 bit ...maybe by doing so Gimp added an alpha channel ??????
since there is no clear canopy on this model , I think I can or you can
fix that simply by re-saving as 24 bit ?
that is really weird
I did how ever work on the _S.tga alpha
BUT
why then does my copy still look just fine in RF???????????
I just took the shot.....

[abaser]

When opening in GIMP, did you C/P into a file, or just open from the menu? Gimp automatically adds the alpha if more than one layer is present. Ive never had/seen an option to save as 24/32 bit. If you find it, please share.:p

Jeff, in the layers tab, right click on the layer and select "remove alpha" to get rid of it. then save

[Maj. Numbskully]

nope ...in RF I saved as another CS
opened the new classic tga into gimp and "saved as" the original with rle compression and closed it


when you cut the vent holes did you add alpha inadvertently jeff ?????/

[jeffpn]

Maj., like I said, the Synchro material is not programmed to recognize the Alpha channel, so it just ignores it. That's why it looks good in RF. My concern is when we do need to use an Alpha material, like in the Eratix. Had we done that in this model, the Synchro canopy would be near-invisible, like the working view screenshot above.

[jeffpn]

This is how I've removed Alpha layers in the past.

[abaser]

That works too. My way is quicker, though.:p

And you may be putting too much into this. I have the alpha in the classic and _s.tga with no problems. The only thing I do see is that the colors look a bit faded once in RF, but that's easily fixed by going darker to begin with.

[jeffpn]

when you cut the vent holes did you add alpha inadvertently jeff ?????/

Alpha is not something that can be added to a 3D model. That is a feature of .tga files. RF is designed to recognize Alpha only if the material is assigned a particular name. RF also does not edit .tga files. That is done in the program that edits .tga files.

[Maj. Numbskully]

but how did andy got alpha working on the Dragon in 6.5
as a none modeler .....maybe I'm not getting this

[Maj. Numbskully]

sorry typing at same time now I see

[jeffpn]

Here's part of the problem, I think. Maj., what I crossed out in red is not the canopy. It's background, or nothing. The canopy is what has a green square around it. I bet that's the source of your problems, trying to get the canopy to behave. You were adjusting the wrong thing.

[Maj. Numbskully]

NOPE I was adjusting the area in the green box jeff
the green box is also where I bumped the foam a little for the canopy
I knew that the red areas were part of the border

[Maj. Numbskully]

did you make the background areas in red gray ?
weird that area is not the white around everything else ....on my copy the border is all one color...50% gray I think

[Maj. Numbskully]

The ONLY thing I did with the classic that I normally never do is open it in Gimp
like boof said earlier "Gimp is messing with me" :mad::rolleyes::p

[jeffpn]

I made no changes to the .tga, other than removing Alpha from the main file to do that screen shot. Obviously modeling is my department, and the CS is your's, but I don't get why the canopy is so light on the .tga, and not black like it shows in RF.

[abaser]

Just out of curiosity, what's the significance of alpha being in the file name? I'm not in the loop, but that would lead me to believe it was tagged for a reason.

[jeffpn]

I seriously doubt that naming the CS with 'alpha' in the name created an Alpha channel.

[abaser]

Not what I'm saying. I'll tag files that way to remind me what I did if I was testing something. Just my personal work flow. Made me curious.

[jeffpn]

And here we have it. In GIMP, raise the alpha layer to full solid, and then remove it. Ta da!!!

[jeffpn]

Not too shabby! ;)

[jeffpn]

Here's a couple more.

[phrank]

You two are really kicking butt on those details.
I like that fuselage glue seam.

[jeffpn]

I like that fuselage glue seam.

That's him, not me!!

[phrank]

Your skillful mapping made that possible!! :D

[jeffpn]

Oh yeah!!! ;) :D

[Maj. Numbskully]

Tagging ?
I've been doing it that way lately for 2 reasons ....
1 ).... Its a way of differentiating between an experimental working file and my "golden" files

2)....If I send jeff a wip CS
and there is some remapping to do
many times the EA comes back with it as an uneditable default ...there goes the name I wanted !

[jeffpn]

I can always get you the name you want. Don't worry about that. ;)

[jeffpn]

Someday Maj., you and I have to get together and build a model start to finish. It'd really help each of us understand the other's process.

[Maj. Numbskully]

One Day ......maybe not that far away

[jeffpn]

Well, we're a day closer than we were yesterday!

[Maj. Numbskully]

True that
I love this hobby so much, so don't pay to much attention to my rants , I'll be here doing what I do between fits :rolleyes: ;)

[Boof69]

True that
I love this hobby so much, so don't pay to much attention to my rants , I'll be here doing what I do between fits :rolleyes: ;)
It'll be ok. http://www.helifreak.com/images/smilies/itsok_170.gif :p

[Maj. Numbskully]

nice one

[Maj. Numbskully]

opjose ...how far down the sport wing do the CF rods go? 2/3s ? , 3/4? ,7/8?

[opjose]

opjose ...how far down the sport wing do the CF rods go? 2/3s ? , 3/4? ,7/8?

Eh, when you say "down" do you mean "out from the fuselage"?

( about 2/3 of the way out from the wing )

Or do you mean how far back are the CF spars from the LE of the wing?

( about 1/3 ).

[opjose]

Here are some pictures...

[Maj. Numbskully]

Up to jeff if he wants me to change that ( easy fix)
I have 'em way more forward towards the LE in front of the servos jeff has theme a little different I think

[jeffpn]

I think it looks great! :D

[jeffpn]

Snicker!

[Boof69]

Nice render Jeff. Those look great!

[jeffpn]

Thanks! As far as I know, they're done. But I need both Maj. And Opjose to sign off on them.

[opjose]

Thanks! As far as I know, they're done. But I need both Maj. And Opjose to sign off on them.

You have e-mail and a sign off after that.

[Maj. Numbskully]

Maj....check

[jeffpn]

I'll get the 2 models packaged up tonight, do any final work, and post them. I'm worried people may not take the Synchro seriously. We've already posted 2 files in one week. How good could the Sychro be? :p :D

[Madratter]

Yeah, whats up with that. :cool:

[jeffpn]

Posted (http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=17592) and posted (http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=17591)

[opjose]

Looks and flies great if I do say so myself. :D

One less plane KE has to introduce in their next Expansion Pack.

How about the wheeled soaring version please.

"More sir?"

[jeffpn]

Yes, I'll get that one out. So I might as well do a gearless Sport as well.

[csgill75]

I think it looks cleaner without the gear. If I had a real one it would be a hand launch bird.

[opjose]

Yes, I'll get that one out. So I might as well do a gearless Sport as well.

The Sport version is difficult to land without the gear.... I've only flown it once w/o gear as a result. It glides ( and IMHO flies ) poorly.

The Soaring version however does equally well with gear as without.

I've often hand launched the Soaring version and landed it with gear on our asphalt runway. Landing this way saves wear and tear on the foam.

[Madratter]

Jeff - I think the links in your descriptions to the other versions don't work (I know they don't for me). I think it is because of the " fore and aft.

[csgill75]

Jeff - I think the links in your descriptions to the other versions don't work (I know they don't for me). I think it is because of the " fore and aft.

They don't work for me either

[jeffpn]

Well damn. Maj., can you put those files back in my name, please? I'll fix that stuff up.