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View Full Version : Fariey Feroce (Fantom)


abaser
12-30-2012, 02:14 AM
Pending further investigation.

opjose
12-30-2012, 02:27 AM
Nice choice!

jeffpn
12-30-2012, 09:27 AM
I'd like to see you do a biplane for a change!! :D

willsonman
12-30-2012, 09:36 AM
oooo pretty

abaser
12-30-2012, 10:05 AM
I'd like to see you do a biplane for a change!! :D

Oh, did you say something? All I heard was blah, blah, blah.:p

dhk79
12-30-2012, 10:06 AM
Half metal, half fabric - should be a fun one.

abaser
12-30-2012, 11:01 AM
One of these days, Im going to find a model that interest me that has a lot of detailed info. From what I have found, it seems only 4 of these were even made, and two of them, nobody really knows what happened to them.

Jed_Sanders
12-30-2012, 12:15 PM
You may have found this already Abaser, but just in case:

http://alternathistory.org.ua/fantom-neudachnik-istrebitel-fairey-fantome-velikobritaniya

abaser
12-30-2012, 12:23 PM
Nice find, Jed. Thanks.

I've now got the 3 views setup and hopefully modeling will begin within the next week. I've got some work yet to do on the tribute, and a few details on the SG to wrap up before sending it to the painter and flight shop.

Fly_electric
12-30-2012, 01:54 PM
Wow! This one will be great Andy!

Kmot
12-30-2012, 02:04 PM
Like! :D

Flare
12-30-2012, 02:17 PM
Looks great! Here are some more pics that might help.

abaser
12-30-2012, 02:50 PM
Thanks for the pics guys. I've got 3 views covered, but shots of the real model are in desperate need. There just isn't much info there that I've found so far. I plan to attempt to contact a company that makes a kit for more info. Wish me luck.:p

Boof69
12-30-2012, 03:16 PM
Here are some model specs:
Name: Fairey Fantome
Type: Large Scale RC
Scale: 1:4.8
Wingspan: 85.8in.( 2180mm)
Length: 66.6 in. (1691.4mm)
Wing area: 1804 sq.in.
Weight: 23 lbs.
Wing loading: 29.4 oz/sq.ft.
Engine req'd: 1.8 2-stroke.
Radio req'd: 4-channel minimum
RC servos req'd: 5-high torque.
Top wing incidence: +2 deg.
Bottom wing incidence: +2 deg.
Tailplane incidence: 0 deg
Bottom wing dihedral: 4.5 deg.
Top wing dihedral: 0 deg.
Right thrust: 1.5 deg.
Down thrust: 0 deg.
Found this info HERE (http://www.rc-airplanes-simplified.com/large-scale-model-aircraft.html)

abaser
12-30-2012, 03:24 PM
Thanks Scott. That's the company Im going to try to contact. They've got some pretty detailed shots of the plans online, so I hope they will be cooperative in helping out.

Kmot
12-31-2012, 03:12 AM
How about these? :p

Fantome on the bottom.

abaser
12-31-2012, 08:12 AM
I cant believe it took this long for this to come up.:p

abaser
01-05-2013, 09:28 PM
Got started on this one today. Im poly heavy, but at least I know where the bank is if I need them. :p

Flare
01-05-2013, 10:29 PM
Interesting...

Maj. Numbskully
01-06-2013, 03:06 PM
Half metal, half fabric - should be a fun one.
Speak of the devil
Just like the Folkerts SK-3 ....( no , the fabric will not be that dark )

abaser
01-06-2013, 03:12 PM
Needs a little refining, but I got the gear pretty well finished. 1692 polys at the moment.

abaser
01-06-2013, 08:28 PM
Not much progress, but I got the radiator passage way hollowed out. I placed a transparent face on the inside that Ill put a radiator texture on, hopefully allowing some light to pass through it. 1952 polys currently.

abaser
01-08-2013, 01:05 AM
Managed to work on the bottom wings, hstabs, and wheel pants. Currently at 4902 polys. I still have to cleanly attach the wings and stabs to the fuse for better transitions, but it's a start.

abaser
01-09-2013, 08:17 PM
Almost all control surfaces cut. 5648 polys currently. I still have the lower ailerons to cut in, wheels, rear landing gear to do before I get into the detail. This model has SEVERAL ribs in the wings, and Im weighing the options of whether or not to try and model them in. I also want to model in some rib work on the rear of the fuse to represent the fabric covering. Those will come first, before the wings.

Boof69
01-09-2013, 08:29 PM
The radial edges on the tail are the right idea, but now that the elevator is cut there is room for more refinement. The wheel pants are way overkill but I think I remember you posting they are just poly banks. Also the forward most edge loop on the ailerons can be removed. The silhouette is very nice and the edge flow is improved over previous models. I hope you don't mind the comments. ;)

abaser
01-09-2013, 08:41 PM
Thanks Scott. Ill look into the tail refinement. I see what you are saying on the rest though. And yes, the wheel pants are my bank for now. I know they are way heavy, but you should have seen how they began. VERY rough objects smoothed twice. They may have to be remade if I need the polys.

abaser
01-09-2013, 08:47 PM
Here is a close up of what I have on the h stab. I see a lot of room for improvement. but due to the curve of the elevator, Im a little lost on what to do there. The highlighted verts show where Im talking about.

Boof69
01-09-2013, 09:06 PM
Here are some ideas.

abaser
01-10-2013, 12:01 AM
Just by going forward with Scott's suggestions, Ive actually been able to drop a few polys (more than I expected). I went from 5648 to 5512 just by reworking the tail.

abaser
01-12-2013, 12:37 AM
Modeling time the past couple days has been almost non-existent. I did manage to start setting up my lighting for renders. I've still got some adjusting to do, but its a start.

abaser
01-12-2013, 08:56 AM
and one more...

abaser
01-12-2013, 11:24 PM
Starting on some of the detail work now. Exhausts, tail wheel, center wing struts, air intake openings, and turnbuckle above V stab added. Current polys 8886.

abaser
01-14-2013, 02:39 PM
I was once worried about polys on the rear fuselage definition. Poly cost, 0.:p

jeffpn
01-14-2013, 02:43 PM
For the faceted look? That's just smoothing groups, man!!

abaser
01-14-2013, 02:45 PM
Yup. I tried my wing rib technique to give a little swag between them, but I like this look much better.

jeffpn
01-14-2013, 02:47 PM
I did that on our SK-3, too. It's more subtle, because of the face count being higher than what you have. I only did it as an afterthought. Otherwise, I would've made it with less faces.

abaser
01-14-2013, 08:58 PM
11932 polys.

jeffpn
01-14-2013, 09:14 PM
Mmm, ribs!!

abaser
01-14-2013, 09:15 PM
And a ton of them!:eek:

jeffpn
01-14-2013, 09:20 PM
All you can eat!! :D

Flare
01-14-2013, 10:54 PM
Is Y supposed to be facing up???

abaser
01-14-2013, 10:58 PM
Is Y supposed to be facing up???

Y and Z are reversed in wings.

jeffpn
01-14-2013, 11:07 PM
Is Y supposed to be facing up???

Yes, Flair. :rolleyes:

Flare
01-14-2013, 11:13 PM
Yes, Flair. :rolleyes:

abaser already told me why. :rolleyes:

jeffpn
01-14-2013, 11:21 PM
At least we know that Andy won't have his model facing the wrong way with you on the watch. (Except you thought it was wrong, when it wasn't.)

abaser
01-15-2013, 08:30 AM
Rib formation is complete. 14706 polys.

Flare
01-15-2013, 10:31 AM
That looks like a very detailed plane!;)

Boof69
01-15-2013, 10:58 AM
This one is looking real nice Andy. Might I suggest an AO map for the CS? I would be willing to do one for you even. There are many areas that I can see that would benefit from an AO on this model. Just a thought.

abaser
01-15-2013, 11:02 AM
Thanks Scott. I'll keep that in mind when the time comes.

abaser
01-15-2013, 04:06 PM
16 turnbuckles added to the guy wires. Surprisingly, Ive still got enough polys for servos, and MAYBE a pilot bust. :p

jeffpn
01-15-2013, 04:13 PM
I made a Snoopy for you that you never used. :(

abaser
01-15-2013, 04:14 PM
I've still got him too;)

jeffpn
01-15-2013, 04:16 PM
You got sloppy seconds now! :p

abaser
01-15-2013, 04:17 PM
Ummmmmm..............on second thought:rolleyes::p

abaser
01-15-2013, 04:27 PM
Well, if I do use him, Ive gotta lotta refinement to do. He puts me nearly at the limit. 19,628 with him.

abaser
01-15-2013, 04:57 PM
I found this guy in my Pawnee file. I think he's going to be a keeper with a little refinement. If anyone recognizes this pilot, please speak up. Id like to give credit where it's due when time.

17946 polys currently.

jeffpn
01-15-2013, 05:04 PM
I have never seen that man in my life, I swear!!

Flare
01-15-2013, 05:39 PM
At least we know that Andy won't have his model facing the wrong way with you on the watch. (Except you thought it was wrong, when it wasn't.)

I did'nt say it was wrong Jiff. No one can read each others minds.

jeffpn
01-15-2013, 05:45 PM
Is Y supposed to be facing up???

Sounds like you thought he was wrong.

Flare
01-15-2013, 07:59 PM
Sounds like you thought he was wrong.

Ok, well, I was just wondering and that isn't the idea of this thread.

jeffpn
01-15-2013, 08:01 PM
Ok, well, I was just wondering and that isn't the idea of this thread.

As long as you're clear on that. ;)

abaser
01-17-2013, 01:10 PM
After several hours tweaking verts, moving edges, and pulling out my hair, I think Im satisfied with the main gear transition area. Im going to call this one done model wise after doing a c mesh and possibly servos if polys allow.

Here's a render for kicks.

Flare
01-17-2013, 03:02 PM
I can't wait to download it off the swap pages!;)

abaser
01-17-2013, 03:34 PM
While I appreciate the enthusiasm, you have a while to wait yet. Still a lot of work to be done. I'll be attempting physics on this one as well, so it may be a month or longer.

willsonman
01-17-2013, 03:43 PM
After several hours... and pulling out my hair...
Careful, you could look like Jeff! :eek:

abaser
01-17-2013, 03:53 PM
Careful, you could look like Jeff! :eek:

Oh man!! Thanks for the mental picture.

abaser
01-22-2013, 01:26 PM
Mapping has begun.

Flare
01-22-2013, 02:09 PM
Do you use the letters to get the mapping right before you use the actual bitmap?

abaser
01-22-2013, 02:11 PM
That's a default wings texture. It helps with sizing and alignment.

abaser
01-22-2013, 08:15 PM
Just a few minor alignment adjustments on the mapping left to do, then on to max for that portion of the program. This has got to be my most complex mapping job to date.

Boof69
01-22-2013, 08:21 PM
Why didn't you map the control surfaces with the airfoils?

abaser
01-22-2013, 08:32 PM
100% pure brain fart. :p

abaser
01-23-2013, 11:19 PM
Finally getting some color on this beast. It's just a test coat, so its not the final color. My main goal was to see if I could find any of the lime green background anywhere. I think the only things NOT mapped on this one are the guy wires, and tail gear. I figure they're so small there's really no point.

abaser
01-24-2013, 10:51 PM
Question for the veterans. Ive never dealt with fabric on a model before, so I ask, how does this look? Looks a little large on fabric size, but that's as small as PS will go.

And, does it need to be bumped? or is it fairly smooth?

abaser
01-25-2013, 01:34 AM
Finally brought this one into Max and did an AO map. Here is a quick, unsetup render.

Boof69
01-25-2013, 08:29 AM
I made the mistake of bumping the fabric on the spacewalker. It looks cool but I've come to find out that by time the fabric is painted the texture is lost. When I did the stampe I just concentrated on bumping the tape and I used noise for the paint texture. I liked the stampe better.
I like the AO its going to add to the finish product.

abaser
01-25-2013, 09:20 AM
Thanks Scott. Ive never been around the stuff, so Im lost in the dark.

Ill send you my files tonight, but take a look at my wheel pants. Any idea what's going on there?

Boof69
01-25-2013, 10:21 AM
I'm not sure until I see your file. When you did the AO did you make the whole model 1 objects and apply an all white material?

abaser
01-25-2013, 10:23 AM
Everything that is mapped is one object with a default material.

dhk79
01-25-2013, 10:57 AM
For the fuselage, I would not bump map it but actually model the fabric sections. The longerons are solid and at the same level as the forward metal. Make those hard edges. Inset the fabric panels a bit and extrude the inner most faces inward slightly, keeping all soft edges here. It'll look right when rendered.

You can use the same process on the wings if you want, but it'll burn polys. So it can be a trade-off.

abaser
01-26-2013, 12:39 AM
Im having a lot of computer problems again, so progress is crawling. I finally got max to let me work on naming for a little bit, and that led me to a question. All of the guy wires and cabane struts, Im sure need to be applied in the physics for proper drag effect and such, but do I need to make them their own object to accomplish that? And what would I use to associate them in the wire frame?

Next question, What about that center wing section? My main concern is the name. I dont recall seeing anything about that, but Im still looking.

abaser
01-26-2013, 12:44 AM
For the fuselage, I would not bump map it but actually model the fabric sections. The longerons are solid and at the same level as the forward metal. Make those hard edges. Inset the fabric panels a bit and extrude the inner most faces inward slightly, keeping all soft edges here. It'll look right when rendered.

You can use the same process on the wings if you want, but it'll burn polys. So it can be a trade-off.

Doug, thanks for the suggestion. However, I really dont think polys will allow me to model the fuse sections as you describe. Like you said, the wing ribs ate me alive, but Id rather have them over the fuselage parts modeled. After I finish the COLL mesh, Ill see what happens, but as you can see in the pic I posted above, I think it's going to be just a dream. besides, I hate remapping.:p:D

dhk79
01-26-2013, 07:22 AM
If you're just modifying as I noted, no remapping would be required.

abaser
01-26-2013, 07:01 PM
I got a little bored and decided to do some naming and other stuff, then import this into RF to see what the CS was going to look like. Looks like the chrome front end is just about right. Im looking forward to this CS as I feel its going to be a good learning project for the alpha channel. That is, if my puter holds up long enough.

Maj. Numbskully
01-26-2013, 10:31 PM
Nice:D

abaser
01-26-2013, 11:02 PM
Thanks Maj.

A little alpha goes a long way.:p This is just the test phase, but she's looking better, and you can now see the texture of the fabric a bit.

I gotta admit, I was skeptical about just how different PS is over Gimp, but so far, adjusting the alpha seems to be a lot easier, and the results look much better for some reason.

Boof69
01-26-2013, 11:48 PM
It's because your now using the industry standard. :D Like the progress. Looks good.

abaser
01-27-2013, 01:15 AM
Thanks Boof.

I went back to Max to redo SGs since the tail section didnt get done right the first time, and a few other touchups that were needed. Played with the CS a little more trying to get the look right as well. I think Im happy with the overall reflectivity, but Im open to suggestions still. One problem Im having though is the windscreen. I've checked to make sure the material is ~CANOPY, but I cant seem to get the alpha to cooperate with me. Its also staying grey, instead of showing changes I make to the tga (BTW, it did show changes until I changed the material to ~CANOPY). I tried to apply the .tga to the material (like I first thought I needed to), but I get the too many bitmap error. Oh well, my mind is tired, so Im probably just overlooking something.:p

Anyway, here's one last pic of the basic look with fixed SGs. Next pic will have more detail, I promise.:D

abaser
01-27-2013, 12:32 PM
PS question. In gimp, I could either copy a picture and paste it onto a new layer, or choose to open a pic as a new layer itself. So far, I haven't been able to do that in PS. I have to open the pic as a new file, then c/p it into what I'm working on. What am I missing?

Boof69
01-27-2013, 12:53 PM
Drag and drop it on the layer in PS. It will be a smart object. That means that you can resize it up and down and not loose pixel information. If you want it as a regular layer just right click the layer and "Rasterize".

abaser
01-27-2013, 12:58 PM
Paste is greyed out unless its done from another PS file. I've tried dragging as well, but get that annoying little circle/ symbol when my cursor moves over my file.

Boof69
01-27-2013, 01:03 PM
Are you dropping it on a locked layer like the background? Create a new layer first then try it.

abaser
01-27-2013, 01:22 PM
Two pics: first shows me trying to C/P, second shows dragging outcome after new layer added.

Dragging opens a new file instead of putting it into the layer.

Boof69
01-27-2013, 02:15 PM
OK if it's not working use the move tool to drag from that new project into yours. Hold shift before you release and it will click into place if the resolutions match.

abaser
01-27-2013, 06:15 PM
And my 9 year old makes his flying debut!

jeffpn
01-27-2013, 06:24 PM
Nice!

Fly_electric
01-28-2013, 03:24 AM
Great work Andy!

abaser
01-28-2013, 09:03 AM
Thanks FE.

A few in sim shots. The CS and _s.tga are practically done, and Im in the process of figuring out what needs to be bumped now.

abaser
01-29-2013, 09:14 AM
An initial placement of panel lines. Fine tuning required, but you get the point.

abaser
01-30-2013, 09:39 PM
With bad weather in the area last night, I didn't work on this in fear of power going out in the middle of something. Instead, I decided to create a wallpaper for my desktop instead. Ill get to the model in a few, but in the meantime, I thought Id share what I came up with. Its nothing special, but I like it.:p

Maj. Numbskully
01-30-2013, 09:42 PM
nice work

jeffpn
01-30-2013, 09:42 PM
That's nice!

abaser
01-30-2013, 09:45 PM
Thanks guys. :)

Boof69
01-30-2013, 09:53 PM
Love the multiple vignettes.

abaser
01-30-2013, 09:57 PM
Boof, you just forced me to learn!! :p

Thanks.

Boof69
01-30-2013, 10:02 PM
I did? :confused:

abaser
01-30-2013, 10:04 PM
You used a big word for a simple country boy. ;)

jeffpn
01-30-2013, 10:05 PM
Big word for a Buckeye, too!!

Boof69
01-30-2013, 10:05 PM
Oh OK I see.

Maj. Numbskully
01-30-2013, 10:06 PM
I love it on my salad !

Boof69
01-30-2013, 10:08 PM
Wait I think that's vinaigrette.:p

abaser
01-30-2013, 10:16 PM
I used to do this with all of my models after I started rendering. I thinking posted one here of my Pitts. I lost them all in the HD crash, and this is my first one since. this has got to be my favorite though.

Fly_electric
01-31-2013, 12:20 AM
Am sure your son thinks it's cool too.

abaser
01-31-2013, 12:49 AM
Heh......the enthusiasm lasted about 5 minutes.:p

Fly_electric
01-31-2013, 09:19 AM
Fame is fleeting...:)

abaser
02-01-2013, 12:47 AM
Well, tonight was a complete, frustrating bust!!:mad::mad: After about an hour and 15 minutes of doing nothing but setting up the wire frame, things went to.............:rolleyes:

I was aligning the v stab wire frame. Position was set, leading edge sweep set, then I click to set the length, and BOOM!! RF just shut down. no popup, no freeze up momentarily, NOTHING!!:mad::mad: Just a "ding" as my desktop appears like it said............ well, Ill leave that to your imagination.After setting the V stab, I was going to save things and see how it flew, but now, Im back to square one with the original base physics. Oh well, guess I can always use the extra practice.

This leads me to a question I recently asked (I dont recall getting an answer yet). With the guy wires and cabane struts, what's the best component frame to use for these objects? Im thinking Detachable Object?

abaser
02-01-2013, 01:25 AM
I did manage to finish the bump map tonight.

abaser
02-01-2013, 09:43 AM
Main wire frame is setup once again. Now for all of the little tidbits................this may take a while.:p

I saved progress after each and every part this time. During the process, RF shut down 4 different times as described above. When I hit save, just a ding, and gone. All unsaved progress is lost. Is anyone else seeing this?

After the big crash last night, I updated to the latest public version thinking that may be it. That doesn't seem to be the case. It seems to do it more frequent if I dont save after each part is modified (for example, I setup all three sections of the top wing, saved, and it crashed).

willsonman
02-01-2013, 10:03 AM
I would suggest you place your fuel tank ahead of the CG. As it empties the flight characteristics will be a bit more predictable. Part alignment looks good.

abaser
02-01-2013, 10:42 AM
That's the plan. I'm mainly aligning parts at the moment. No weights or anything like that have been adjusted as of yet. I'm still waiting to hear back on a few things from the designer. I'm not going to let that slow me down much though.

abaser
02-03-2013, 04:28 PM
Anyone up for a physics job? The wire frame is setup. My interest is diminishing on this. Ive said it before, my main interests are doing the build and CS. If interested, let me know.

willsonman
02-03-2013, 08:30 PM
I'll get to it... I'm on my 5-day stretch of work (10-hr days).

abaser
02-03-2013, 08:39 PM
Are you wanting to do the final physics, or just talking about the look over? If you want the final, Ill need to send you the final EA.

willsonman
02-03-2013, 10:30 PM
Oh, just the look-over. I've got my own fish in the fryer.

abaser
02-03-2013, 10:32 PM
Gotcha. I'd still like the look over when you get the time. No rush whatsoever.

abaser
02-26-2013, 10:28 PM
POSTED (http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=18249)

Due to computer issues, some things are lacking, and the name is wrong, but that's where Im at at this point.

abaser
04-27-2013, 07:26 AM
I always like a good render.:p