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  #31  
Old 02-13-2018, 01:54 PM
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abaser abaser is offline
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That's odd. I always assumed RF did just what you did so I wouldn't think it would do anything. I don't have X though so it might do something completely different.
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  #32  
Old 02-13-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by abaser View Post
That's odd. I always assumed RF did just what you did so I wouldn't think it would do anything. I don't have X though so it might do something completely different.
There could be a difference in how the cmesh is handled in the graphics engine using a rendered only angle poly and a hard poly caused by an actual edge. Dunno, just guessing. Yes the rectangle is split to render it but without a real edge the engine may not see it as something to collide with.
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  #33  
Old 02-13-2018, 02:15 PM
asj5547 asj5547 is offline
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I know about the triangulate deal but what I did made a major difference in RF-X so it did something. I'm just trying to do anything I can to make the plane better in RF-X before I release it. And yeah, all the cmesh for tires I've done in the past is very simple compared to this.. but that was for RF 7.5. Anyway what I did made a major change in RF-X for me and I'd be able to go with what I've done to improve it in RF-X and feel people could fly the plane okay. But before the sticks were terrible. But right now I'm waiting to see how it works for asj5547 before I go with it. I don't want to lower the rolling resistance way down it caused the plane to roll as soon as it loaded for me.
Just rolled the T-28c slowly down the runway and applied the brakes, left mains wheel grabbed again just as the plane was stopping, give it throttle to break free.
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File Type: jpg T-28Cleft main sticks-modified download..jpg (92.1 KB, 7 views)
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  #34  
Old 02-13-2018, 02:29 PM
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I see the wheel is sunk into the surface a bit. Just a question. Is there an option to turn scenery objects on and off? I had a similar thing happen in 7.5 where when objects were off, the stripes on the runway would go away. When this happened it created holes in the runway and the wheels would fall off in them and stop the plane when you got to the edge of the stripe.
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  #35  
Old 02-13-2018, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by abaser View Post
I see the wheel is sunk into the surface a bit. Just a question. Is there an option to turn scenery objects on and off? I had a similar thing happen in 7.5 where when objects were off, the stripes on the runway would go away. When this happened it created holes in the runway and the wheels would fall off in them and stop the plane when you got to the edge of the stripe.
I don't know next time I start RF-X I'll look around, but I don't remember seeing anything like that. I went back and flattened the top of the tire collision mesh again thinking maybe a totally level contact area might make a difference but it didn't seem to change it to me. It's better now than it was but definitely not perfect.

One other thing that bothers me is, there's a big difference in what value it takes to make the canopy just a bit visible between RF-8 and RF-X so the canopy looks okay in RF-8 but you have a hard time seeing it in RF-X so it's almost like it isn't there.
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  #36  
Old 02-13-2018, 03:40 PM
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In 7.5 you'll find it in the graphics settings under the simulation tab.
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  #37  
Old 02-13-2018, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by abaser View Post
In 7.5 you'll find it in the graphics settings under the simulation tab.
Oh yeah I've seen it in RF 7.5 just not RF-X.
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  #38  
Old 02-13-2018, 07:31 PM
asj5547 asj5547 is offline
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Originally Posted by technoid View Post
I don't know next time I start RF-X I'll look around, but I don't remember seeing anything like that. I went back and flattened the top of the tire collision mesh again thinking maybe a totally level contact area might make a difference but it didn't seem to change it to me. It's better now than it was but definitely not perfect.

One other thing that bothers me is, there's a big difference in what value it takes to make the canopy just a bit visible between RF-8 and RF-X so the canopy looks okay in RF-8 but you have a hard time seeing it in RF-X so it's almost like it isn't there.
I have tried the T-28C (this is the latest beta version, download today) in Meadowland and Flight School airports, adjusted rolling resistance from 100% working down to 10% and sticks at every level, sometimes just a little throttle will break it free, but once it stuck so bad at 20% it snapped the front wheel off.
I will try turning off the runway stripes and let you know the effect.'
Question, do your Great Lakes Trainer and Great Lakes Special have collision mesh or the same type of wheels, because they both roll flawlessly.

Last edited by asj5547; 02-13-2018 at 07:34 PM.
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  #39  
Old 02-13-2018, 09:44 PM
asj5547 asj5547 is offline
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Is this a problem with the brakes??? I know they are not actual 'brakes' but an inferred physics value programmed in to the model.
I get the same "glued in place" aircraft behavior when I hold full down elevator and apply throttle, (that I expect) as to when the aircraft sticks after applying and releasing the brakes during taxi maneuvers.
Your biplanes that I fly do not have brakes and they taxi perfectly.

Last edited by asj5547; 02-13-2018 at 11:32 PM.
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  #40  
Old 02-13-2018, 09:50 PM
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Error message while testing at 10% rolling resistance 100% friction multiplyer.
Crashed RF-X, program not responding message.
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File Type: png rfx crash t28c.PNG (22.0 KB, 7 views)
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  #41  
Old 02-13-2018, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by asj5547 View Post
Is this a problem with the brakes??? I get the same "glued in place" aircraft behavior when I hold full down elevator and apply throttle, (that I expect) as to when the aircraft sticks after applying and releasing the brakes during taxi maneuvers.
Your biplanes that I fly do not have brakes and they taxi perfectly.
I've been wondering for a while if it has something to do with the tire size so after your mentioned the Great Lakes Biplanes didn't do it I looked at both tire sized.

Great Lakes Biplane Tire Size Main Gear Tire Size

X: 1.26
Y: 5.29
Z: 5.29

T-28 Trojan Nose Tire Size

X: 1.0
Y: 3.47
Z: 3.47

T-28 Trojan Wing Tire Size

X: 1.01
Y: 3.9
Z: 3.9

I don't know if that's an issue but the tire size on the Biplane is quite a bit larger. I think I'll do a test build with larger tires and see what happens. Of course the brakes might be an issue too but often when the plane is first loaded it's stuck, so no brakes applied yet. (unless the problem is there are brakes in the physics even if never applied)

Last edited by technoid; 02-13-2018 at 11:13 PM.
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  #42  
Old 02-14-2018, 12:04 AM
asj5547 asj5547 is offline
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Yes the T-28C is stationary on load, if rolling resistance is set 30% - 100% range, but if rolling resistance is set to 1% - 30% range it rolls freely on initial load, yet the brakes grip and the nose wheel steers (seems to have normal amount of traction).?
I have imported G4.5 models with brakes, trike landing gear and no collision mesh and they work okay, A-6 Intruder for example.
I do not have a solution for this problem, just hope the supplied info will help to trigger the thought buds.
Oh yes, the runway stripes cannot be turned off so it's not a wheel catching in a stripe sink hole, I can only remove the entire runway decal.

Last edited by asj5547; 02-14-2018 at 12:15 AM.
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  #43  
Old 02-14-2018, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asj5547 View Post
Yes the T-28C is stationary on load, if rolling resistance is set 30% - 100% range, but if rolling resistance is set to 1% it rolls freely on initial load, yet the brakes grip and the nose wheel steers (seems to have normal amount of traction).?
I have imported G4.5 models with brakes, trike landing gear and no collision mesh and they work okay, A-6 Intruder for example.
I do not have a solution for this problem, just hope the supplied info will help to trigger the thought buds.
I just did a test build with a 1.25 x 4.75 front tire and 1.25 x 5.00 wing tires and had the same problem. Then I went back to the RF-X editor and set all brakes to 0% and also set the brake servo to none. After saving the changes and reloading RF-X it did the same thing, one time I was even able to increase the throttle slowly and break off the nose gear.

SO.. enough is enough I'm going back to what I think is the best build, which is my last change to the tire collision mesh and release it that way. I don't know what the problem is and I've worked on it enough. The plane is fine in RF-X except for this problem AND the fact the Canopy can hardly be seen but is very visible, even more than I want it to be in RF-8. I may even lower the Canopy opacity so it looks the best in RF-8 and add comments in the Release Notes about these two issues and people can change the Canopy opacity in the CS TGA file Alpha Layer to fix it in RF-X. It would be nice if the same build is fine for both RF-8 and RF-X but it doesn't appear that's possible. I'll probably give an Alpha Channel Value in the Release notes to make the Canopy look right in RF-X. Bummer but I want to release the plane and I've done all I can at this point.

Thanks for all your help on this it's been a big help to me. I just don't want to change the rolling resistance but that would be some good information to pass along in the release notes too. I don't know what I've done wrong but it's probably something simple, the NexStar in RF-X is a Trike too and it works fine.

Last edited by technoid; 02-14-2018 at 12:25 AM.
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  #44  
Old 02-14-2018, 01:24 AM
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Okay in a last ditch effort to fix the sticking problem I looked at the landing gear on several planes including the Great Lakes Trainer and the built-in NexStar. The common thing was they were using 'springy' gear of some sort, spring flat aluminum or springy scale retracts. When I first started flying Wright Island like several others mentioned it was Very Bouncy on Landing so I changed the landing gear on the T-28 to round steel to get rid of the bouncing, but then you had to put up with the extra noise on landing.. which was a small price to pay for no bouncing. SO.. I just changed the T-28 nose and wing gear to springy scale retracts with a 100% (default) strength factor and Walla.. the Sticking went away.

SO.. asj5547 will you change both your Nose and Wing gear to Springy Scale Retracts and make sure the Strength for the springy scale retracts is set to the Default 100% and let me know how it works for you, but I expect it will work the same and get rid of the Sticky problem but add back the Bouncy problem.

Again thanks for your help on this!
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  #45  
Old 02-14-2018, 08:42 AM
asj5547 asj5547 is offline
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Originally Posted by technoid View Post
Okay in a last ditch effort to fix the sticking problem I looked at the landing gear on several planes including the Great Lakes Trainer and the built-in NexStar. The common thing was they were using 'springy' gear of some sort, spring flat aluminum or springy scale retracts. When I first started flying Wright Island like several others mentioned it was Very Bouncy on Landing so I changed the landing gear on the T-28 to round steel to get rid of the bouncing, but then you had to put up with the extra noise on landing.. which was a small price to pay for no bouncing. SO.. I just changed the T-28 nose and wing gear to springy scale retracts with a 100% (default) strength factor and Walla.. the Sticking went away.

SO.. asj5547 will you change both your Nose and Wing gear to Springy Scale Retracts and make sure the Strength for the springy scale retracts is set to the Default 100% and let me know how it works for you, but I expect it will work the same and get rid of the Sticky problem but add back the Bouncy problem.

Again thanks for your help on this!
Scale retracts or springy scale retracts work good, and for some strange reason I can now alter the graph points on the brakes for more stopping power.
Will do a lot if taxiing and landings today to confirm solution.
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