Go Back   Knife Edge > RealFlight - Discontinued Products > RealFlight G3
Use of this site is subject to our Terms of Use. | Technical Support is available from Great Planes Software Support.

View Poll Results: will it take off ?
Yes 35 71.43%
No 14 28.57%
Voters: 49. This poll is closed

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #61  
Old 02-01-2008, 07:02 PM
jeffpn's Avatar
jeffpn jeffpn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Posts: 18,386
The whole point, and why it's one of the most debated myths presently, is that the treadmill cannot hold the plane stationary, period. It could hold a car stationary, but not a plane.
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 05-17-2008, 09:13 PM
HX3D014's Avatar
HX3D014 HX3D014 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 1,622
this became an Interesting thread.

The original Question is <Edit remove interoperated, insert interpreted Edit> different ways by many different minds.

1/ why would the pilot who is going to try to take off not apply full power?

2/ even if he held the power to hold the plane stationary relative to the ground. Then wouldn't the wheels be motionless, and then the belt would not need to be moving and then the observers would be say "come on! Get on with it!"

3/ neutrons can not travel at the speed of light? This is my understanding.

4/ the time clock in the Bertram youtube video clip likes Purple. (Just like OP)

5/ if you had that clock on you and you traveled at the speed of light
(Imposable?) Then the green light would disappear.

6/what stops light from going faster. (What is the Force?)

7/if you experience a time distortion when moving then it must be circular at some Point of Observation. IE the person moving dose not recognize it even with one of those clocks.

8/ If I drive at 100kph with that clock on board will it appear to slow down while I am looking at it (Presuming I had placed it on the dashboard so I could still see the road without crashing) <Though, it is pretty trippy and I probably would trance out to it and crash anyway>

7 b/ we are all traveling at different speeds as we sleep in our beds in our home (Based on firm ground) because we are all traveling through space around our galaxy around our sun around our planet (Not in that direct path but) we are all changing speed at any one point. but as a passenger we can not detect the time change because as the You tube post of the doco says. The electrons etc through our brain and around every atom in our body are all restricted to C.

Getting back to the Plane.

If the tread mill was to have moved fast enough with the plane stationary to the observer (held there by the power of the prop/etc) and governed so as to not allow the plane to move forward relatively to the observer, then the plain would hover.

PS I want one of those clocks and one of those T-Shirts
__________________
AKA HX3D014 on the WattFlyer Forums RC Groups Forums
AKA BGRing on the ARCHeli Forums

Last edited by HX3D014; 05-17-2008 at 09:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 05-17-2008, 09:43 PM
Norton's Avatar
Norton Norton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: CA,
Posts: 3,796
Now thats the guy I remember!!!!!! Cheers B! Good to see ya again........
__________________
I'd like to see a 2 file per day upload limit.

TN..
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 05-17-2008, 09:55 PM
HX3D014's Avatar
HX3D014 HX3D014 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 1,622
Thanks Buddy.

It feels good to be back.

cheers
__________________
AKA HX3D014 on the WattFlyer Forums RC Groups Forums
AKA BGRing on the ARCHeli Forums
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 05-17-2008, 10:17 PM
Vikingwarrior's Avatar
Vikingwarrior Vikingwarrior is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 199
"6/what stops light from going faster. (What is the Force?)"

It's called Darkness.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 05-17-2008, 10:32 PM
HX3D014's Avatar
HX3D014 HX3D014 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 1,622
Ahhhh.

Now I see the light

Yin yang.

Good bad

Up down

Light dark.

.

Another thought is something I saw a while back.

Had to do with a doco on a woman who first came up with E=MC^2 she was dropping lead balls into clay from varying heights and was fascinated at the different results from different heights. Or some thing to that effect.

later in the doce they talked about Albert (I think it was him?) or it might have been the Russian physicists who were working with the elements and later put E=MC^2 to the power of an atom.

NE Way.

some where in the doco they talked about a train trying to get to the speed of light and what would happen to its mass as it did so. some where along the line I vaguely recall that as you approach the speed of light the trains mass increased immensely, as is mass just energy anyway... ? ?

That one is one I could not quite get as I have not much study under my belt re the makings of a Proton or ???

Any one else heard of this mass increase as mass approaches the speed of light ??

(Not to worry. the plane still takes of)
__________________
AKA HX3D014 on the WattFlyer Forums RC Groups Forums
AKA BGRing on the ARCHeli Forums
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 05-17-2008, 10:35 PM
Vikingwarrior's Avatar
Vikingwarrior Vikingwarrior is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by HX3D014
Ahhhh.

Now I see the light

Yin yang.

Good bad

Up down

Light dark.

.

Another thought is something I saw a while back.

Had to do with a doco on a woman who first came up with E=MC^2 she was dropping lead balls into clay from varying heights and was fascinated at the different results from different heights. Or some thing to that effect.

later in the doce they talked about Albert (I think it was him?) or it might have been the Russian physicists who were working with the elements and later put E=MC^2 to the power of an atom.

NE Way.

some where in the doco they talked about a train trying to get to the speed of light and what would happen to its mass as it did so. some where along the line I vaguely recall that as you approach the speed of light you mass increased immensely as mass just energy anyway...

That one is one I could not quite get as I have not much study under my belt re the makings of a Proton or ???

Any one else heard of this mass increase as mass approaches the speed of light ??

(Not to worry. the plane still takes of)
NOTE: alot of people get this wrong, but there is no GOOD or Bad in yin-yang. PS, black hole...swallows all light, meaning that, it must be faster than light, It is hard to understand.
Oh, and the aircraft, I beleive cannot takeoff.(No speed =No Lift, No lift= plane still grounded.)

Last edited by Vikingwarrior; 05-17-2008 at 10:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 05-17-2008, 10:43 PM
HX3D014's Avatar
HX3D014 HX3D014 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 1,622
I never said that. but glad you pointed it out.

I do know that there is a little yang in the yin and a little yin in the yang.

I believe that if you think the plane will not take off them you have a different interpretation of the question than I do.

Let me guess.

You are wanting the pilot to not try to move forward. rather. you are wanting him to hold the aircraft in one position relative to a bystander who is not on the treadmill.

Or ??

The black hole thing. isn't that Gravity ?? Or maybe there is a Great Dark matter generator. the opposite to a Star (To some extent).

get back to me re your interpretation of the treadmill question.

Bryce.
__________________
AKA HX3D014 on the WattFlyer Forums RC Groups Forums
AKA BGRing on the ARCHeli Forums
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 05-17-2008, 10:47 PM
Vikingwarrior's Avatar
Vikingwarrior Vikingwarrior is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 199
If the aircraft is being pulled, the aircraft would take off, but if it is standing still it won't, That is how airplanes work, using lift. not magic.

Last edited by Vikingwarrior; 05-17-2008 at 10:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 05-17-2008, 11:08 PM
HX3D014's Avatar
HX3D014 HX3D014 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 1,622
Agreed. if by pulled you mean the propeller and by pulled you mean moving relative to the ground (Not the Treadmill).

I Agree. (Or pushed )

Bryce.
__________________
AKA HX3D014 on the WattFlyer Forums RC Groups Forums
AKA BGRing on the ARCHeli Forums
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 05-18-2008, 12:03 AM
crashed again's Avatar
crashed again crashed again is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SAN ANTONIO,TEXAS
Posts: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by HX3D014
Getting back to the Plane.

If the tread mill was to have moved fast enough with the plane stationary to the observer (held there by the power of the prop/etc) and governed so as to not allow the plane to move forward relatively to the observer, then the plain would hover.

PS I want one of those clocks and one of those T-Shirts
i do not agree ;p
if you held the power to say 20%, enough so that the friction of the belt on the tires was nulled, the plane would remain stationary in relation to the observer.
it would not however "hover", because 20% power is not enough to fly, unless the headwind is tremendous!
just my $.02
__________________
CRASHED AGAIN
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 05-18-2008, 12:10 AM
ZDAD ZDAD is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 10
Plane on a treadmill will not "take off" Myth

YES it will take off !!!
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 05-18-2008, 12:28 AM
HX3D014's Avatar
HX3D014 HX3D014 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 1,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by crashed again
i do not agree ;p
if you held the power to say 20%, enough so that the friction of the belt on the tires was nulled, the plane would remain stationary in relation to the observer.
it would not however "hover", because 20% power is not enough to fly, unless the headwind is tremendous!
just my $.02
Correct.

However. if you are getting my Hover statement in there then that is a different scenario.

IE if the belt were to be moving at say 900mph. there would be enough wind from the belt to cause a strong enough draught. (Of cause it would not be strong enough for an A380 and its wings are way to high.

but if it were a small Cap then it might just hover on that cushion of air caused by the wind from the belt. while remaining stationary to the observer.

That one is a Some times thing. Depends on the belt surface and the aircraft type.

Hehe. Never mind.
__________________
AKA HX3D014 on the WattFlyer Forums RC Groups Forums
AKA BGRing on the ARCHeli Forums
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 05-18-2008, 09:16 AM
jeffpn's Avatar
jeffpn jeffpn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Posts: 18,386
People have a real hard time wrapping there head around this plane-treadmill scenario. The treadmill has NO impact on the speed of the airplane, whether it's the treadmill at 900mph or the plane at 20%. Imagine instead of the propeller pulling the plane forward, that you are pulling it forward with your hand. No matter what speed the treadmill is going, you'll be able to pull the plane forward easily (assuming frictionless landing gear). The only difference that the speed of the treadmill makes is it affects the speed of the landing gear, which does not affect the speed of the plane. The only thing that causes the plane to accelerate is it's propeller.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 05-18-2008, 07:40 PM
HX3D014's Avatar
HX3D014 HX3D014 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
Posts: 1,622
Relax Jeff , I agree.

My statement about the hover is a different scenario.

Read my posts again.

the is proposed in my scenario that there is an effect on the speed. and that effect is the pilot was told to hold the plain motionless relative to a bystander. and in that scenario where the treadmill is going fast enough. there is a wind from the treadmill surface that would no doubt (With enough skill from the Pilot) lift a Small under wing CAP aircraft. If it was a larger aircraft like the Real sized ultra light they used in the Example in mythbusters. then I doubt the wind would get that high. but the wind from the surface of the treadmill would be enough to probably lift a light under wing RC aircraft.

If however. you do not read my first post. let me say this again.

in the Scenario where the mythbusters tested. the Pilots objective was to try to fly. and so I said that it is fair to say that he would apply full power . (I said this because people imagined that the plain was going to be standing still) silly really. that they thought it would . Like .. why would it. the pilot was told to take off. and so he would throttle up and move on (Relative to the bystander) get enough relative airflow and lift off some distance down the treadmill.


Don't bust you brain on my hover statement. I am doubting that there would be enough residual wind flow for a small RC Under wing aircraft. but Hay. When I heard that One. I Thought that sounds Plausible. (Yeah its a different scenario. but still as interesting as the Light speed thing

Bryce.
__________________
AKA HX3D014 on the WattFlyer Forums RC Groups Forums
AKA BGRing on the ARCHeli Forums
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:56 PM.