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  #1  
Old 08-21-2006, 01:45 AM
remyrw remyrw is offline
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Blade CP 1st Try

NON EXPANSION PACK VERSION LATER IN THREAD

This is a variant from the MX400 in expansion pack 1, so you'll need that.
It's very rough, meant more to attempt to simulate the KIND of heli rather than be particularly accurate in detail. Visually it's the same, I didn't change that at all.

The primary changes are no more heading hold on the gyro, changed the rotor blades to the closest match I could get to the flat bottomed plastic plates (not stock ones) and adjusted the location, size and weight of the flybar/paddles. I also changed the motor and battery. I have no clue on the gearing and such so I left that pretty much as is, it seems about right compared to my limited experience. Please note that the plastic blades are heavy and relatively "slow" compared to the stock wooden ones and I'm simulating the 9.6v NiMH pack and matching motor, not a LiPo despite the listed pack in the sim.

PLEASE feel free to offer suggestions, additional data... Particularly on things like the airfoil (I'd love to know exactly what it is, along with the standard wood blades and symetricals), gearing and tail dynamics. I consider this an alpha release rather than something further along and my limited experience means I need input from folks a lot more familiar with both the model and the simulator.

Remy
Attached Files
File Type: g3x Blade CP_AV.G3X (38.3 KB, 827 views)

Last edited by remyrw; 10-09-2006 at 05:04 PM.
  #2  
Old 08-22-2006, 01:24 AM
remyrw remyrw is offline
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Version 2

I'm not sure if this version is an improvement or not. It is closer to the actual weight of the Blade CP and I lowered the tail a bit. I also lightened the paddles, too much really but it felt closer to my Blade this way than the other.

Between the two versions I'm not sure which is closer. In terms of lift and such I think this one, for the rest I just don't know. I'm still working on the tail, I think I've got too much gyro dialed in and will play with that next.

-- edit gyro adjusted version uploaded--
WOW! I added 80% override on the gyro, basically freeing up the tail to control inputs without toning down the gyro anymore (it's at 50%) and it feels a lot better now. It's got that kind of loose but not out of control tail feel with fast piro's and it still tries to coordinate a bit in turns even without input.

Please, I need some feedback on this thing. Essentially I'm shooting blind on a lot of the flight feel since all I can reliably do is hover mine. I'm pretty decent in the sim but I'm still working on trimming and smooth control with the real one so I just don't have the experience to know what's not quite right.

Remy
Attached Files
File Type: g3x BladeCP-mk2_AV.G3X (38.3 KB, 436 views)

Last edited by remyrw; 08-22-2006 at 01:35 AM.
  #3  
Old 08-22-2006, 09:43 AM
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Airacobra Airacobra is offline
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Thanks man. I LLLLIKE IT!
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  #4  
Old 08-24-2006, 12:04 AM
remyrw remyrw is offline
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Slight Tweak

If you have the Mark 2 already there's not much changed, I just tweaked the tail slightly so it tracked properly and moved the CG a fraction of an inch forward.
Converted to the real thing, I tweaked the 4-1 proportional a tiny bit and moved the battery a hair further forward so the heli didn't have a tendancy to slide backwards. I'd rather bias slightly toward forward flight than backwards.
Attached Files
File Type: g3x BladeCP-mk2_AV.G3X (38.0 KB, 261 views)
  #5  
Old 08-29-2006, 10:57 AM
remyrw remyrw is offline
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Current version

Ok, edit of this post. I decided it was past time to change the battery pack and sizing. Visually it's always been too big since I never adjusted the appearance, just the physics. So now it's 75% smaller, a rough approximation since I didn't actually compare the numbers when I did it. I also put in an 8 cell nimh pack, so it now has the issue of high starting voltage that quickly drops a bit then stays steady till near the end. These changes required a few other minor tweaks but only the CG change after putting in the heavier pack was important. My flight testing shows that this is much more accurate in terms of available power. You no longer have tons of lift in reserve but you're not short for normal flight either. The Blade CP requires the LiPo to really have lots of oomph so this is accurate.

I'm calling this a beta version. It's pretty decent but still not polished. I still need user feedback folks, along with any airfoil information folks have.

For the newcomers using this to learn prior to flying their real ones, it is a lot more durable than the real one, you'll have tail strikes with the real thing that cause crashes. I highly suggest practicing your landings with a very slight FORWARD motion and mostly straight ahead to avoid any angular momentum. Also remember to cut throttle and trim the second you're down just in case. These are vital skills with a Blade CP and will save you lots of headaches and money.

--edit--
Err, not 75% smaller, 75% of the size it WAS, little typo there.
Attached Files
File Type: g3x Small_CP_NiMH_AV.G3X (39.1 KB, 314 views)

Last edited by remyrw; 08-30-2006 at 08:56 AM.
  #6  
Old 08-29-2006, 12:20 PM
remyrw remyrw is offline
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Yup

I just flew my blade again after flying the above g3 model, pretty close in terms of hovering and response rate. It got a bit breezy so I'm not sure on forward flight, after I went from a steady hover to ten feet higher and fifteen feet further away in a blink of an eye I decided to bring it back in for a landing and wait.

I'm still pretty new as a pilot so I play it safe.
  #7  
Old 08-31-2006, 02:18 PM
boarderboy1593 boarderboy1593 is offline
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flys nice like a CP
  #8  
Old 08-31-2006, 11:50 PM
remyrw remyrw is offline
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Thanks

So far so good, thanks for the positive feedback.

I made a new lipo version with symetricals but it needs tons of work and I don't have any experience with the real one so it'll wait. Let's just say if that's how it really flew, no one would be flying that setup You wound up holding about half right cyclic just to cut the drift and there was no way in hell you were going to do any aerobatics, it was just too unbalanced. I'm not sure where the issue is but figure by the time I get back to it I'll have more experience.

I did a couple more flights with my real CP, and a good bit of nose in practice with the sim version and sim'd larger helis so I could practice with a more steady machine. It really is pretty similar now, including the annoying tail. It's not that it's that poorly behaved, it's that it's just well enough behaved that you forget to keep flying it. My real one does the same thing when I've got it all trimmed nicely. I'll be just fine in that hover, then the slightest change in air movement or drift off a stable hover and the tail wants to swing. Gyro helps but too much is worse than not enough. It's good training though, and I imagine I'll get spoiled by my T-rex once I start flying with HH enabled. Going back to the blade after that could be funny.
  #9  
Old 09-03-2006, 11:59 PM
Slimemold Slimemold is offline
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Any chance you can do a Blade CP Pro? I'll be happy with just the Blade CP with LiPo and heading hold gyro (I fly mine with flat bottom blades).
  #10  
Old 09-04-2006, 09:39 AM
remyrw remyrw is offline
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You can do it

It's easy enough to make those changes yourself. Just load the heli, then go to the edit section and switch the battery. Select a suitable mah li-po then tell it how many cells. That's back on the main page for the battery, not in the sub menu.

Then go to the electronics section and where it has a 0 for heading hold, put anything higher than 0.

Give it a shot. Basic editing is pretty easy once you play around a bit. I'll do a version like this in a bit and upload it, but I don't have any experience flying a lipo/hh heli outside the sim so I wouldn't be able to judge accuracy.
  #11  
Old 09-04-2006, 10:01 AM
remyrw remyrw is offline
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Here ya go

Here's the same model as the previous one, but with heading hold mix set to 80% and a lipo 910mah 3 cell pack replacing the NiMH. It also required moving the CG forward about 1.25 because the lipo is lighter than the nimh and wasn't providing as much weight up front.
Attached Files
File Type: g3x CP_lipo_hh_AV.G3X (39.0 KB, 251 views)
  #12  
Old 09-07-2006, 09:25 PM
remyrw remyrw is offline
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Blade CP Pro Version

As requested, a "Pro" version. It feels a bit weak to me, not as zippy as I'd expect, but that could just be the symetricals requiring more power for a given amount of lift. It does the aerobatics I'm capable of in the sim so...

For the record this version has:
910mah 3 cell LiPo
No heading hold on the gyro
Basic brushed 380 motor set for 150% base torque
Gear Ratio is set 1 higher (10:1 rather than 9) which avoids bogging but can't be helping with the available lift. I need more testing to find a good ratio of rotor speed to torque
Symetrical blades, NACA 14's. Basically they're cut down T-rex wooden blades.
Lightened the paddles and increased the paddle to rotor effect to 80%, to simulate the Bell-Hiller system. Interestingly enough this seems like it's making it MORE stable and solid, if responsive. I might just have to switch over on my blade.

I definitely need some feedback on this one since I do NOT own a Blade CP Pro and don't even run Li-Po batteries in my CP, so I'm not familiar with how it should feel and how much lift it really should have.
Attached Files
File Type: g3x CP_Pro_AV.g3x (39.1 KB, 269 views)
  #13  
Old 09-07-2006, 09:49 PM
remyrw remyrw is offline
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No expansion CPP version

This CPP version requires NO EXPANSION PACKS, just G3's basic package.

This is kinda rough, but I'll try to tweak it into shape over the next couple days.
Started with a Dominion and scaled it down by hand and visually. Then changed over the power system and altered the electronics. It's not great but it's not bad, probably not any far off than the expansion pack version above, I'll probably discontinue that one in favor of this one since it lets anyone with G3 use it. I would have gone this route originally but my editing skills weren't up to it, tweaking an MX400 was a heck of a lot simpler than converting a nitro powered machine several times larger and many times heavier.

no details right now, but it flies, it's sorta close...
Attached Files
File Type: g3x CPP3_AV.G3X (35.6 KB, 313 views)

Last edited by remyrw; 09-07-2006 at 11:34 PM.
  #14  
Old 09-08-2006, 01:42 AM
remyrw remyrw is offline
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Another update

This is the second version of the Dominion based CP Pro. It's got the tail tweaked much better and some other minor adjustments that seem to match up more closely.

It does NOT piro well, seems to spin along the wrong axis and I'm not sure why, gonna have to check the physics more carefully. I'm sure this issue was also effecting the aerobatics I tried, but I'm not very good at them so who knows if it was the bird of my lack of skills

-- Edit--
I found the piro/physics issue, can't believe I never noticed that before but I'll start working on fixing them. The last (normal CP with flat bottoms and nimh) is already corrected. It might turn out to be easier to start over from the Dominion for each version knowing what I learned tonight. It's almost tougher to change the heli to fix the error than it is to avoid the error when starting over from a "correct" one. The corrected one is NOT perfect and needs some adjusting to correct minor issues after the changes, a little rudder trim fixes them temporarily.
--end edit--

Please note that unless you happen to prefer an earlier version there's no reason to keep previous versions of each, each new edition of a variant is stand alone from the previous ones. Currently I've got the following:

Blade CP with Lipo and symetricals
Blade CP with Lipo, symetricals and HH
Blade CP Pro based off the Dominion which does not require any expansion pack. (please grab the one from the next post, it's a better version)
Blade CP with NiMH and flat bottom blades (corrected, should piro about right)

They're attached in order. There should be distinct differences between them, though hopefully the first and third are relatively alike. The one with heading hold can be adjusted to whatever amount of hold you want, offhand I don't recall what it's set to. The CP Pro variant has the responses tuned up to simulate having the Bell-Hiller setup rather than the standard. I might have accidentally made that change on the others, it's worth checking. Under the paddles adjustment there's a main rotor mix rate setting. "normal" is about 60% and with the Bell Hiller it could be as high as 100%, though that would make the heli respond almost instantly to any input, no gentle movement of the rotor, you move the stick it shifts angle with nearly no delay. I'll check them and update the attachments as needed, along with note here.

Keep in mind, three require Expansion Pack #1, the dominion based one does not require anything but G3. I'll eventually get around to a standard CP based on the dominion so everyone can use the standard CP in the sim. I need lots of feedback on these, folks. Telling me you like it is great, but doesn't help me improve them.
Attached Files
File Type: g3x CP-lp-sym_AV.G3X (39.1 KB, 187 views)
File Type: g3x CP_lipo_hh_AV.G3X (39.1 KB, 184 views)
File Type: g3x CPP3-2_AV.G3X (37.1 KB, 180 views)
File Type: g3x CP-nm-flt_AV.G3X (38.6 KB, 177 views)

Last edited by remyrw; 09-09-2006 at 01:00 AM.
  #15  
Old 09-08-2006, 12:21 PM
remyrw remyrw is offline
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New Pro

Ok, started over from the Dominion and watched what I was doing. This one might have some size issues in the physics, I didn't check everything, but it flies about right to me and matches up on most of the key issues. More importantly it has the danged balance/pivot point fixed so it doesn't seem to rotate around somewhere other than the rotor shaft.

Gyro is set around the mid point, with 80% override, so you can have gentle tail movements or you can spin like crazy, up to you.

This replaces the Dominion based CP Pro from above.
Attached Files
File Type: g3x CP_Pro-V3_AV.G3X (37.0 KB, 486 views)

Last edited by remyrw; 09-08-2006 at 12:31 PM.
 

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