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  #1  
Old 09-24-2006, 07:49 AM
0xdeadbeef 0xdeadbeef is offline
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Landing on sloped roofs and some viewpoint/zoom suggestions

When trying to land on sloped roofs I notice an extreme slowdown of the simulation. The frame rate suddenly drops to 1 frame per second or so as soon as you come close to a sloped roof. I'm not sure if this is also true for "uneven" terrain, but it's completely reproducable for roofs on houses/barns. Then again flat roofs (like Joe's Garage) don't seem to be a problem. While this is certainly no big issue, it seems to shows that the collision system is pretty slow and only optimized for flat surfaces. Maybe this also explains heavy slowdowns during crashes which occur from time to time, probably depending on crash geometry.

Also, when talking about landing on/starting from buildings, it would be nice if the object collision in pilot "fly mode" would also work. E.g. I would like to "fly" the pilot up to any level of the construction site, then switch to walk mode and see the pilot land on the next possible surface. At the moment he will fall down to the terrain instead. Generally, it would be nice if the pilot would either stop or jump up to the uppermost surface when running into an object. Stepping inside it is not really something I desire.

Next point on my wishlist would be a "drop aircraft before me" button. When looking for a new pilot spawn point, it would be nice if it could be tested immediately, without creating a new plane/heli spawn position or flying the aircraft to the new position, which might be difficult if it's hidden by objects or far away.

Regarding the Autozoom/Keep ground in view feature, I would like it to consider the actual size of an aircraft. At the moment the zoom factor seems to be selected only based on distance, not on aircraft size. However it does make a difference if a micro airplane is displayed or a very big one. Maybe a selectable "size bias" would be a good idea.

Last but not least, I would like the +/- keys to work in "keep ground in view" as well. They could be used to change the "maximum field of view" since it's a hassle to enter the configuration menu just to change this.
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  #2  
Old 09-24-2006, 06:57 PM
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opjose opjose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0xdeadbeef
When trying to land on sloped roofs I notice an extreme slowdown of the simulation. The frame rate suddenly drops to 1 frame per second or so as soon as you come close to a sloped roof. I'm not sure if this is also true for "uneven" terrain, but it's completely reproducable for roofs on houses/barns. Then again flat roofs (like Joe's Garage) don't seem to be a problem. While this is certainly no big issue, it seems to shows that the collision system is pretty slow and only optimized for flat surfaces. Maybe this also explains heavy slowdowns during crashes which occur from time to time, probably depending on crash geometry.
This has been covered by the developers on the other threads.

The more complicated the collision/3D model the more this will occur, especially with sloping objects that are "beyond" the model, but still relatively close to it.

It happens worst with helicopter models, as these have the most complicated collision geometry.

Effectively everything causes a very high loading on the CPU during these events.

There have been no stated plans to do anything about this.

I suspect that a fix might require a major code base rewrite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0xdeadbeef
Also, when talking about landing on/starting from buildings, it would be nice if the object collision in pilot "fly mode" would also work. E.g. I would like to "fly" the pilot up to any level of the construction site, then switch to walk mode and see the pilot land on the next possible surface. At the moment he will fall down to the terrain instead. Generally, it would be nice if the pilot would either stop or jump up to the uppermost surface when running into an object. Stepping inside it is not really something I desire.
While not what you are asking for, you can edit the airfield and place a new pilot spawn point wherever you desire and at any height.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0xdeadbeef

Next point on my wishlist would be a "drop aircraft before me" button. When looking for a new pilot spawn point, it would be nice if it could be tested immediately, without creating a new plane/heli spawn position or flying the aircraft to the new position, which might be difficult if it's hidden by objects or far away.
I'd like to see this too.
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  #3  
Old 09-25-2006, 04:04 PM
0xdeadbeef 0xdeadbeef is offline
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About collisions: well, there using the original geometry is probably just a bad idea. G3 should allow to use bounding boxes and spheres use maybe auto-create a simplified geometry then. Having a polygon exact collision that's simply too slow to be checked in real time is not really a sensible approach for a real time application.

About pilot collision: sure I could create a pilot spawn in the editor. But as there's already a feature to move around the pilot, it could be easily enhanced to test new spawn positions without having the need to edit the airport. It's really the same idea as dropping the aircraft anywhere. As an additional/alternative suggestion it would be nice to to a hand start by just pressing a key (or selecting a menu point) instead of having to edit the aircraft.

Still I would like to see my other suggestions to be considered as I think they would improve the visibility of aircrafts quite a lot in autozom/"keep ground in view" modes with little effort.

Don't get me wrong: I love G3 and haven't regret yet to invest my money in it instead of AFPD or Reflex. Anyway, I think there's still place for improvement in a good product.
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  #4  
Old 09-25-2006, 04:23 PM
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opjose opjose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0xdeadbeef
About collisions: well, there using the original geometry is probably just a bad idea. G3 should allow to use bounding boxes and spheres use maybe auto-create a simplified geometry then. Having a polygon exact collision that's simply too slow to be checked in real time is not really a sensible approach for a real time application.
It is not "polygon exact".

Rather the collision mechanism uses a second 3D object "layer" that can be far lower in poly count.

If you fly a plane onto a sloped roof, there is normally no problem thanks to this collision layer.

It is only when the collision layer gets complex, as with a heli, do things start to slow down.

I brought all of this up to Vitek some time ago when I noticed that one of the updates was also causing the slowdowns when a 3D model was "between" your view point and a sloped roof. He stated that there was something amiss with the proximity detection scheme, and sure enough this was adjust with the subsequent release(s) (THINGS WERE MUCH WORST BEFORE!!!).

The same is true with the object/part deconstruction. In this case now the system must handle a new set of collisions for each part. I don't believe that G3 currently uses individual part collision layers, so it must revert back to the default which is to utilize the actual model polys... and things get slooow...
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  #5  
Old 09-25-2006, 06:25 PM
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harv harv is offline
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i also sudenly relized that my computer does that to, in the fun fly field, everything is usually good, until i land all three on the sloped tents.
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  #6  
Old 09-26-2006, 11:46 AM
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opjose opjose is offline
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This is one of those things which people sometimes don't notice until someone points it out.

I found out about this when I was trying to simulate some of the neat stunts I've seen people perform with helicopters...

e.g. "landing" the heli on the bottom of a rooftop, inverted. Not an easy thing to do.

I also was trying to land the helis on sloped roofs when I ran into this problem.

Landing helis on sloping surfaces is always problematic.
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  #7  
Old 09-26-2006, 12:30 PM
0xdeadbeef 0xdeadbeef is offline
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It's not only helis. Same things happens for planes. It's just that a plane needs excellent hovering capabilities to be landed softly on a sloped roof. So for most of the planes you would not notice this anyway.
Then again the slowdown when crashing any aircraft is something which happens quite often. Well, it's not like you want to crash that often anyway, but sometimes I feel to urge to drive a turbine powered jet against a wall and then it's kinda disturbing if the simulation stops for a second just when you touch the wall. And this on a dual core machine which has only medium cpu load during normal simulation.

Then again I hope with all the slope discussion, I hope my other suggestions are still considered.
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