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  #31  
Old 10-20-2018, 03:32 PM
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BrokeDad BrokeDad is online now
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Originally Posted by 12oclockhigh View Post
Here is an interesting idea. Just learn to .... fly.
I donít have 3axis anything on my planes or helicopters. I do have it on my multi-rotors, but I have flown multis without stabilization.

Learn to fly. Fly often.
I fly several flybar helis .. but everyone should be like you
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  #32  
Old 10-20-2018, 04:44 PM
12oclockhigh 12oclockhigh is offline
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Funny....NOT!
The simulator is the failsafe. Flying in beginner mode in the sim is rediculous.
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  #33  
Old 10-20-2018, 05:46 PM
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I think one advantage of having the Spektrum Stabilisation within RF8 is that it allows you to practise trying different stabilisation modes in order to see what they all do before you try them out at the field.

As a long time rc flyer I used to have mixed feelings about the use of stabilisation systems. However, after trying a few different ones over the last 10 years I have slowly seen benefits to using these. Anything that helps get more people into the hobby and retains them is a good thing imho.
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  #34  
Old 10-20-2018, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12oclockhigh View Post
Here is an interesting idea. Just learn to .... fly.
I donít have 3axis anything on my planes or helicopters. I do have it on my multi-rotors, but I have flown multis without stabilization.

Learn to fly. Fly often.
New people in the hobby like and need the stability the safe devices give them. Not everyone has access to instruction or flying fields so they are on their own to learn how to fly their models. That's the way it was for me with helicopters as I had to learn how to fly the basics on my own before a instructor would even talk to me. So I learned on my own everything I needed to know using the sim. I taught myself and didn't need the instructor. It cost me a lot of money to learn that way as I crashed often and wished I had the safety devices of today. That Blade 400 was rebuilt several times and upgraded, but eventually I learned and moved up to better birds after I didn't crash anymore.

Flying in parks and back yards is a lot more prevalent now with park fliers and small helicopters. I haven't been to a actual flying club for 7 years now myself but I fly often outside. Most of the time It's in the yard but sometimes I go to the park with the planes. I've recommended several of the small park fliers and realflight to people who want to learn on their own.

I will admit that I am curious about the new safe tech available as I've never flown a plane with that kind of device so the addition to the sim is useful, and if the sim reacts the same way the real aircraft does, it's better for the new pilot. Nothing wrong with that. People don't use flying clubs and instructors if they aren't available.
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  #35  
Old 10-20-2018, 06:41 PM
12oclockhigh 12oclockhigh is offline
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Fly the most difficult possible way in the simulator, then outdoors you will fly good when you’re using stabilization.

I trained a guy for months using the stabilization on the apprentice plane. I thought the stabilization was turned off, when we finally turned it off he couldn’t fly. Then he wanted me to solo him as safe to fly as long as he used stabilization, I refuse to do that.

You can’t fly until you can. Don’t cheat.
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  #36  
Old 10-20-2018, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 12oclockhigh View Post
Fly the most difficult possible way in the simulator, then outdoors you will fly good when youíre using stabilization.

I trained a guy for months using the stabilization on the apprentice plane. I thought the stabilization was turned off, when we finally turned it off he couldnít fly. Then he wanted me to solo him as safe to fly as long as he used stabilization, I refuse to do that.

You canít fly until you can. Donít cheat.
Nothing wrong with 3-axis gyros on a Flybarless helicopter, I love my V-Bar

You trained the guy which means he had a instructor. Many people don't have that luxury. Many people will never see a actual RC flying field. I know that there isn't someone like that around here since there isn't a flying field for 60 miles from here, unless I choose to do it myself (don't have that kind of time) so people who want to fly need all the help they can get and if they don't have a simulator, which I always recommend, then they watch YouTube and use the training aids built into the aircraft they are flying.

Since there is no field here , I fly Helis in the front yard, small planes at the park across the road from here and my bigger gas models out at a cousins farm. I started flying at the park a few years ago and there are now several people using small park flyers now. All probably have some sort of stabilization since I didn't show them anything but they are out there having fun. That's really what the hobby is about.
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  #37  
Old 10-20-2018, 08:12 PM
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I think it’s pretty important for instructors to have a good knowledge of flight stabilization systems. This allows you to slowly remove the self leveling and rescue functions.

Whether or not you think stabilization systems are worthwhile or not kinda depends on how comfortable you are with this technology together with your experience as a rc flight instructor. No real right or wrong way to do this imho.

I think it’s best to just keep an open mind on all this and respect others opinions. I realize that this is extremely difficult for some, lol!
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  #38  
Old 10-20-2018, 08:48 PM
12oclockhigh 12oclockhigh is offline
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I have an open mind about these thing, they slow down, delay and stunt pilot growth. They are a crutch that you will never rid yourself of.

If you learn to fly without them, you can fly anything.

The flybarless systems, such as I use, are not gyro stabilized. BeastX

The only thing that I donít own or fly is turbines. I fly 55cc gassers and have 800 sized helicopters. I have large glow engines and lot of electrics. I have the original 3 axis systems all the way to the latest. I know how they work.

Learn to fly then you can use any electronics you want.
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  #39  
Old 10-20-2018, 10:06 PM
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Ya, you're pretty open minded and I respect both your experience and opinion(s).

Probably worth explaining the various forms of Stabilization use in RC, just so we are all on the same page.

Even your flybarred heli's utilise stabilisation to some degree = the Flybar (and weights used) plus your tail gyro.

Flybarless systems like your BeastX utalise 3-axis gyros to help stabilise roll, pitch and yaw. As you know, this helps make them a lot more stable in windy conditions. Basically, this is the same as many flight controllers on planes like Spektrum as3x. In both cases these stabilisation systems help make your aircraft feel much more solid, more point and shoot in my mind. For me, these systems make small aircraft feel and fly like much larger ones.

The next level of stabilisation is usually adds more sophisticated gyros that allow the aircrafts position in 3d to be predicted and acted upon.

This can generally take a number of forms;

- restricted roll and pitch (say, 30-45 deg max)
- self-levelling when sticks are centred
- rescue = immediate override

So, my point is that there are lots of RC stabilisation options out there and it is up individuals (including instructors) to decide which and when these are best used.

Last edited by TomC; 10-20-2018 at 10:08 PM.
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  #40  
Old 10-20-2018, 10:32 PM
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Honestly, I'm just curious how the stabilization systems feel. I don't have anything that has it as all my models came out before this kind of thing came out. I would probably never own one.

After thinking about it, my camera drones (Mavic Pro and Anafi) pretty much fly themselves and actually can with flightplan capabilities. I don't really consider them in the same regard as traditional RC.
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  #41  
Old 10-20-2018, 10:45 PM
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GPS equipped aircraft are just another level of stabilization. These are all still very much part of our great RC hobby imho.

To be honest I’m not sure I even know what traditional means anymore. Sorta depends on which time period you start out in, lol!
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  #42  
Old 10-21-2018, 12:40 AM
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These SAFE debates become tiresome after awhile. People learn to fly differently and under different circumstances. No one has a monopoly on the perfect way to learn. If you don't like SAFE, don't use it. If you do, use it understanding that the ultimate goal is not to use it

Last edited by ICM; 10-21-2018 at 12:43 AM.
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  #43  
Old 10-21-2018, 12:55 AM
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Wow, as tired as you are you have still managed to add your opinion on the subject (which I do not disagree with btw). What a trooper! Thanks for finding the energy to share this with us.
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  #44  
Old 10-21-2018, 08:26 AM
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I don't feel like I "fly" my camera drones. I command them to perform a action and they execute the command. There is no feeling of 100% control because I can't push them beyond their limits, it won't let that happen. They are capable of full autonomous flight from takoff to landing without any input from the controller so I don't consider this traditional RC. To me tradional RC is flying without any training aids and there is the real possibility on every flight that it could be the last for that model.


There is a place for the SAFE tech. It isn't for everyone and people need to eventually wean themselves off of it as they learn to fly. People who want to join the hobby need to learn somehow. If instructors aren't available then I would want them to have some kind of safety device so they can be more successful on learning how to fly and not crash every time they go out.
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  #45  
Old 10-21-2018, 09:33 AM
12oclockhigh 12oclockhigh is offline
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The thing that SHOULD separate this argument is using “safe” device technology in the simulator.

The simulator is the safe technology. Who cares if you crash in the sim? I don’t see anyone keeping score.

It is really not that hard to fly manually. Another point the FBL replaces the fly bar. It is not a gyro stabilized system.
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