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Old 07-03-2011, 01:38 PM
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opjose opjose is offline
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Originally Posted by lothar2048
This is due to Naca profile and simple aernonautic rules. The plane will climb or not if the profile is or not an heavy lift one. Flat wing planes won't, but in G5.5 do. All delta wings and jets flat profiles shoudn't, but they do. What can you say about this ?
I already said what you need to do and know....

"This has - NOTHING - to do with anything being an "old style method" and has everything to do with wing type, wing incidence and plane design.

I have several flat bottom airfoil large electrics, like a Piper Archer, that LOVE to climb on throttle, as do most trainer planes.

This design is used on modern planes and is by choice."

If you don't like the behaviour of a model, just change it!

However don't assume that because a model behaves differently than you expect, that "it is based upon an old design" or is incorrect. You are mistaken in your presumption and statement.
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:07 AM
lothar2048 lothar2048 is offline
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True and Untrue

Originally Posted by Junkboy999
This thread is going the same way as the one titled “ why do all RealFlight planes nose drop while inverted “. That user was in the same mind of thinking about flight physics as Lothar2048. He is only thinking about the wing. How did he put it? “ This is due to Naca profile and simple aernonautic rules “.

Every one is so focused on the wing and it’s profile that they forget about the TRUE RULER of the SKYs. Gravity. It all ways wins in the end. This is the saying my flight instructor use to say at the aero club at RAF Mildenhall where I started my ground school for my pilots licence.

Ok so bear with me as I build a plane in your imagantion. Lets make a straight stick fuselage and a 100% symmetrical wing and a flat wood tail. This plane has a Magic engine that pull the plane straight forward with out any right toque or down thrust because it is magic. This Magic plane should fly as straight right side up and inverted. So we hand launch it. It flys “ Straight as an arrow” so the saying goes. But wait!! What is happening? it is noseing over and hits the ground engine first. What went wrong? Gravity. It all ways wins in the end.

Now let fix this problem. To make the plane fly we needed to add a control surface on its tail. Lets call then Elevators. Every one know about elevators, Up is up and down is down Right. but if the plane is just setting on the ground and I push up it does not go up, and the same with down. We should call these things Magic Air Deflectors that push the tail up or down to change the attack incidence of the main lifting body to the flow of air moving over them. Whowwww that is a mouth full. But truly that is what they do. Ok I launch the plane now. Again it flyes straight for a few seconds and then the nose starts dropping. This time I’m ready for it. I move the control surface and the plane responds and levels out. I release my pressure off the elevator stick and the plane starts dropping again. Ok I see so I will have to holed the stick back a bit to fly level. Ok I can do that. Now it is time for a high speed flyby. I gun the throttle of the magic engine, ( again no torque or thrust produces for this example ) the plane responds with a increase of speed as it flys down the runway for my high speed pass. But wait. It is climbing. This should not happen. I’m holding the same and pressure position on the elevator stick as I was a minute ago. This wing is 100% symmetrical wing and in theory should not be producing any lift. I guess the faster I go the less control surface deflection I will require to defeat gravity and stay in a level flight. If only there was a way to TRIM the plane for level flight for the speed that I would like to operator the plane. WOW I just had a thought!!! is that way all planes in real life have a Trim able horizontal stab, a trim tab located on the elevator’s control, or a trim able flying tail. That probably what those little bottoms on my RC controller due too.

After having fun typing that, here is what I sad. It is the speed of air over the wings in conjunction with the wings attack angle to that air that caused the plane to fly. In turn the faster the air speed over the wings the greater the lift. The greater the attack angle the greater the lift. Most plane have a Negative incidence built in to the horizontal tail to help over come gravity. This Negative incidence acts as a control surface input , so the faster you go you need to trim the plane to over compensate for the negative setting.

As for you comment about “ All delta wings and jets flat profiles shoudn't, but they do. What can you say about this ? “ All planes are designed to operate in a speed range due to the incidence of the wings and the tail surface. if you fly in the middle of that speed range and the plane is flying level, any change in speed will cause a lift of a drop. As the plane gets lighter because it is getting low on gas it will now climb even if your at the speed you want to fly at and the trim setting to make it level.

We see these thread from time to time and it just make you laugh. Remember the throttle is a variable setting it is not full on and full off. I trim my classic high wing model to fly level at 75% throttle setting and my jets level at 90%. You can trim yours to fly level at any throttle setting you like by changing the incidence on the Horz Stab. Just don’t change the CG to level the model that just adds in more problems.

I recommend that you learn how to fly the models more like a scale flyer and less as a “ let see how Fast I can go” weekend warrior. You will have more fun.
I agree with your demonstration instead you don't know that inverted flight physics could be equally equilibrated in an RC plane in both up and down. That's why i'm doing with all my flatouts and also all my 3D planes as this is a flight condition you should know...

Real life planes are not specially designed for inverted flight and specially high wings. You need inverted flight batteries, inverted pumps and so on. Does your flight instructor ever flew on a jet before ? Did he ever flew a CAP 232 ? Does RC means like the real thing or can it be improved in such ways for safety as good RC builders do ?

I was not talking about all planes and helies but noticed that flight caracteristics were not respected on most planes and helies, but i agree this is not a general offense...

Why are you explaining things with irony and hate ? Do you have a problem in your life ?
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:20 AM
lothar2048 lothar2048 is offline
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So let's talk about FPV and flying....

Originally Posted by 12oclockhigh
Absolutely! 100% of the time. Simulator and Real World. There is only one Real Flight heli that I know of that even has rate mode simulated.

Are you just here trying to make trouble? It would seem so. With only 4 posts you seem to be trying to hit every hot button and are showing not much understanding for a FPV pilot.
Can you tell me what is your problem and what your comment helps to find an issue with this discussion ? Talking frankly is a crime ? Having different point of view is an insult ? If you don't defend your point of view in another way than insulting the other one, how can you expect some respect in further answers ?

Can you consider that i'm french and doing lots of efforts to talk the same language as your. So if i'm not expressing well myslef, just let me know. But why so much aggressivity on such forum ?

Can you also tell us what kind of FPV experience you do have and what kind of stuff you are using for ? This would be a first step for understanding and having some help.

My setup is the following

NTM 3536A 910 KV motor.
10X7 tribadle Pusher Master Airscrew Prop.
Skywalker Airframe with Big Bump Landing Gear and carbon renforced tail and wings.
HK 60 amp ESC with 5A Bec (Clone of Castel Creations One).
D-MG16 1,9kg Servos (Hitec Clones)
FrSky Telemetry 8ch Receiver.
CE Easy OSD modified to handle 100 amps.
TeleflyOSD and MyFlyDream Tracker Fully Automated with Graphical Ground Station.
5.8 ghz 200mw (25mw per band) TX and RX with 5.8 ghz 23db Patch Antenna + Yaggi antenna combined (Diversity will only help if you have 2 TX placed in a different location or if you are using Dual Polarization Antennas).
4S 5000ma 20C battery for RC and 2200 20C battery for OSD, tracker and camera.
Sony HAD II 800x600 camera with pan and tilt.
Fixed GoPro Hero with updated firmware on BetaGel for having High quality videos without waving.
Video Switch for Sony and GOpro inflight switching.
High Definition Headplay Googles.
FY20A flight stabilizer.

With this setup, i can fly more than half an our with a very stable flight.

I have tested several stuff to this point and this is the best solution you can have for a low pricing, wich was the goal for building FPV schools.

All the stuff tested so far :

Eaglettree, RVOSD, Remzibi, EZOSD, CE OSD, DragonOSD, FY Products.
Twinstar, Easystar (ailerons one), Easy Glider, Fox Glider (Best one but little rooming) Skywalker (best platform with a lot of room) and HK Eagle FPV clone (too rigid).
Axi motors (Best one but very expensive). Turnigy motors, Feigao Motors. NTM motors.
CC ESC (Best one but very expensive).
Arch Wood Triblade Props. APC props. Chinese Props. MA props.
Fatshark solution including tracker and OSD (Too low def and range good for sport FPV not for AP).
EagleEyes Ground Station. EZ ground Station. MFD Ground Station.

I've also built 1S FPV micro planes for indoor flying with Flytron products and a 450 with AP landing Gear and a heavy playload Quadricopter (Able to lift up to 3Kg camera for 5/6 minutes flight and with 9°OF gyrostabilization, barometric altitude hold,magnetic sensors and so on)...

I'm contributing in translating AeroSimRc FPV simulator in french and have good relationships with the developper sor far.

Just tell me if you want some more pictures ;-)
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:19 PM
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Chris McVey Chris McVey is offline
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This is off subject. Keep this related to Real Flight or I will be forced to close this thread.

Chris McVey
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:02 PM
lothar2048 lothar2048 is offline
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What is Off Subject ?

Originally Posted by Chris McVey
This is off subject. Keep this related to Real Flight or I will be forced to close this thread.

Chris McVey
Dear Chris McVey

Do i'm wrong or the thread title i created was : "Osd And Fpv Users + General Improvements ?"

What is off subject ? Talking about FPV stuff relative to the first post i personnaly made and related to OSD improvement and FPV caracteristics needed in Realflight, All based on my experience of it, experienced users and FPV builders, Electronic, avionics, aviation and RF engeneers, FPV community and market products tests and reviews ?

Everyone here is just turning mad or what ? I think you can close or destroy the thread, shred my account to dust and forgive me forever. I bought Realflight because i thought this was a nice product. I think i was wrong... I will keep my PhoenixRC for physics, and AeroSim RC for FPV. you don't want me, no matter with that, i don't want you too now...

Anyone here wants a mode 1 used box of Realflight G5 ? Let me know, it's on sale...
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:52 PM
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jeffpn jeffpn is offline
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Post #18 had nothing to do with RF. That's what the RF forums are for - to discuss RF.
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Old 02-25-2015, 05:26 PM
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doug schluter doug schluter is offline
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not sure if this is the place to post this but it concerns some if not all of the real life RC pilots .

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