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  #1  
Old 03-23-2014, 03:33 PM
ExtremeXS ExtremeXS is offline
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Locked Challenge Content also locks Expansion Packs

I've been looking into the 'Hidden/Locked' content, things I've notice go missing from my previous G4.5 revision compared to G7 (Which I've worked out the full list).

Whilst I think the challenges are a nice idea, as it the concept of giving extra content, there are challenges I am either not interested in or will never be good enough at to progress well enough to unlock those items.

This leaves a bit of a conundrum, it's a flight sim - not a game, and now some content is to all intense of purposes 'Locked away' forever.

Add to this fact that some of this content is from the Expansion Pack that I purchased separately, and because G7 has a more up to date version of this "Purchased" items, I loose the ability to use my bought content also!

I am rather perplexed, don't get me wrong the challenges are a fine idea, but please don't lock away content for those not interested - the challenges are really about stats and scores. Certainly don't lock away items I have paid extra to have in the first place!

It's great of course that others can potentially get the extra content, but surely not at the expense of other owners loosing it!

Cheers,
Mark
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Old 03-23-2014, 04:19 PM
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C'mon Knifeedge, please publish the console commands to unlock challenge content !

Please.
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Old 03-23-2014, 04:25 PM
ExtremeXS ExtremeXS is offline
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I've seen a couple but I think there only in multiplayer mode.
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Old 03-23-2014, 05:41 PM
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There are ways around the challenges to get your aircraft back.

3 Ways to get them actually.

1. Complete the challenges.

2. Export a AV of the missing aircraft from your older copy of Realflight, import the AV and fly that AV copy.

3. Edit the database file to "Cheat the system" to make it think you completed all the challenges. This gives you the original files without having to create AV's but is time consuming. This however is not something I am going to tell you how to do publicly on this forum but if you really want to know, PM me a message.
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Old 03-23-2014, 06:54 PM
ExtremeXS ExtremeXS is offline
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I've already edited the relevant file to unlock them, and keeping a copy of my actual 'Progress' for when I want to try challenges, thanks for the info though.

I suspect I will create AV's for the content and then revert my progress file so that it's a bit more future proof for updates.

Cheers
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Old 03-24-2014, 06:06 AM
12oclockhigh 12oclockhigh is offline
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Somebody should just go ahead and post a cracked complete database... if you don't want to fly the challenges, you shouldn't have to. There have been cheat codes for almost every game in existence for quite a while.
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:24 AM
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ExtremeXS is absolutely correct.

Locking away aircraft that we previously paid for is complete, unadulterated BS!

BS!!


So let's not have any more of this BS!!



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Old 03-26-2014, 12:05 PM
12oclockhigh 12oclockhigh is offline
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I think that this is getting a bit harsh... they gave us a path to legitimately get that content back... together with the vast assortment of wonderful new flying challenges, REALFLIGHT 7 is a HUGE success and gets a plus 10 from me.

I know you guys like the software and have this small teany bitty gripe... keep perspective.

Some people will complain about being hung with a new rope!!!
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Old 03-26-2014, 01:00 PM
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I think that the challenges are fine but as I mentioned before, if they are going to reward us with aircraft, make new aircraft for the sim not found anywhere else. Do not take away aircraft that I went out and paid for as an additional cost to the sim. It would be akin to talking a new car in to the dealer for service and they updated the engine computer for better efficiency but they take away the back seat of the car and won't give it back until you drive in circles a thousand times.
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Old 03-26-2014, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csgill75 View Post
if they are going to reward us with aircraft, make new aircraft for the sim not found anywhere else. Do not take away aircraft that I went out and paid for as an additional cost to the sim.
That is the key, isn't it?

If we knew there is a hidden goodie, that we were not expecting, which we will get after completing the challenges, we would all be happy with that.

The psychology of intermittent reinforcement comes into play driving people to complete the tasks.

But take away something that we paid money expecting to receive directly without additional pre-requisites, and it is akin to working twice for the same reward... once to make the money to pay for the software, then again to "unlock" the content.

While this may seem like a minor point, it isn't to the purchaser.

Knifeedge can "fix" the faux-pas by unlocking all existing content contained in the Packs, that the user has separately obtained, and add hidden and undocumented content only obtainable by completing the challenges.
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Last edited by opjose; 03-27-2014 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 03-27-2014, 03:36 PM
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First off, let me say that I can appreciate where you guys are coming from on this. We knew we wanted to add unlockable content as rewards for earning medals in RF7's new challenges. I don't think anybody strongly objects to that. But what to use for those rewards?

Perhaps in a perfect world the rewards would all be brand-new content. Realistically, that is problematic because of all the extra work it entails. The initial RF7 release contained 11 challenges, which would have required creating that many new models and/or airports on top of what we were already adding to RF7. Some of you have an idea how much work goes into just one of these things. That simply wasn't an option for us.

One can argue that exclusively using brand-new content for rewards is actually not ideal. Anything we lock as a reward will be seen by some percentage of users less than 100. What percentage? We don't really know. And that becomes a problem when the new models we're adding are one of the major features of a new version and we want everyone to have immediate access to them.

You can perhaps see why we would turn to the large pool of existing Expansion Pack and Mega Pack aircraft and pull a small percentage of them into the main product as unlockable rewards. We know that most users never purchase EPs/MPs, so this represents bonus additional content for all of them. The content is still available for users who do own the EPs/MPs that previously contained that content, even if not in the way they might like.

Some users have cleverly pointed out a few methods for obtaining that content without actually earning medals in the challenges. Hopefully it doesn't bruise anybody's ego to say that you are not pulling one over on us. We were aware of each of those "loopholes" and deliberately left them in place as unofficial means to an end. We're not going to get angry at anybody for exploiting them, though we do want to encourage everyone to actually unlock that content for themselves because we think the challenges are worthwhile both as skill-builders and as pure enjoyment in their own right.

At this point I'm going to say something that will probably be unpopular. Please bear with me.

The Expansion Packs and Mega Packs were never sold with a guarantee that they would be supported in future versions of RealFlight. EP1 was released for G3 eight years ago. The last Expansion Pack, #8, was released for G5.5 three years ago. Both Mega Packs were released for RF6.0. Much has been said about feelings that we have "taken away" content that people paid for. I disagree that we have taken anything away, even though it may feel that way. That content is still available in all of those previous versions, which include the versions of RealFlight for which that content was actually released. We haven't done anything to remove it from a place where it was previously available.

In our view, we could have released RF7 without any support at all for EPs/MPs. Maybe it wouldn't be a wise business decision, but I don't think anybody could legitimately make a case that it would be somehow wrong of us. I would humbly submit that you already got your money's worth out of those previous purchases.

But we didn't drop that support. All of that content is still available in RF7, in one way or another. Most of it is available immediately without any extra work. And again, we're talking about older products released for previous versions of RealFlight, so we feel a little more leeway to make those kinds of changes (though it was not done lightly).

In case I've made anybody nervous, let me assure you that dropping EP/MP support is not something we would do for no reason. It makes people happy to continue having access to that content, and we want to continue that for as long as we can. I think the free release of the repackaged Add-Ons demonstrates that. Further, I understand at this point there is a lot of historical precedent for continuing to support the old EPs/MPs in new versions of the sim. People probably make purchase decisions at least partially based on that. But I also don't expect it to be possible for us to continue supporting those old products forever. There will probably come a time when it's simply not feasible or practical for us to do so. Just something to keep in mind.

Since the initial release of RF7, all of the rewards for new challenges added in updates have been brand-new models. (Have you guys seen some of this stuff? We're trying to do some fun things that also thematically fit the challenges that unlock them. Hopefully you appreciate that.) Pulling in EP content at the start of a new major product version is one thing, but we did not want to continue doing that after release. We definitely would view removing access in a minor update to a given model that was available in the previous version as taking something away from you, and we don't want to do that.

I am going to see if we might be able to do a little more for you guys on this. That is not a guarantee that we will change anything! I regret saying it already. There are a number of things we need to consider. But I want you guys to know that we at least hear you and do understand your point of view.

Anyway, there's a bit of a brain dump on the subject from our perspective. I hope you find it useful.
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  #12  
Old 03-28-2014, 02:08 AM
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Ah geez, you make it hard to be grumpy!
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:46 AM
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I would be more than happy to give up all my expansion packs if that is what it takes to move Away from DX9 and to DX11 or even the new DX12 that is coming out. Until then, I will continue to enjoy them (in their entirety) in the current environment. We all know nothing lasts forever just as the people that continue to use the G3 Interlink Plus with RF7 which Tech support is now telling them that it is a supported device.

I would still like to see the challenges in a multi-player environment like we had way back in the G4 days (but less buggy) as doing them in single player is boring to me and I use multi-player 98% of the time I use RealFlight.

Last edited by csgill75; 03-28-2014 at 04:01 AM.
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  #14  
Old 03-28-2014, 03:45 PM
ExtremeXS ExtremeXS is offline
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Thank for the response and taking the time.

I completely understand what you are saying and where you are coming from on this, it also makes much more sense when appliying the ep's to the general version it was aimed at.

It is also appreciated that the loop holes are available, I keep two profiles so that I can continue with the challenge progress.

For reference I purchased ep6-8 at the same time as upgrading from G4 to G7, hence for me the inability to actually try some of the content

I am also aware of how hard you try to keep older and even older g2/g3 content working, which is the reason I had confidence in purchasing older expansions even now.

Cheers,
Mark
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  #15  
Old 04-04-2014, 09:32 PM
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Check out the new public beta. We added a console command that will unlock reward content matching the EPs/MPs you have installed. For example, if you have EP2 installed, the reward content that previously existed there--the Wolf Spyder and the Aqueduct airport--will be unlocked for you in the main product.

The console command is "unlockRewardsFromEPs". It is included in the commands listed by the "help" command.

We did not want this to be the default behavior, but we wanted to make the option available. You may want to place this command in your startup script so that it is always in effect.

It is worth noting that even if you do that, if the last aircraft/airport you used is something unlocked this way, the sim will not be able to load it on startup the next time. That is simply a result of the order in which things happen. The startup script has not yet executed at the point the sim attempts to load the most recently used aircraft and airport. (This does not happen if you unlock the content by earning challenge medals.)

Enjoy!
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