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  #61  
Old 09-03-2017, 06:55 AM
0xdeadbeef 0xdeadbeef is offline
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Actually, most of the simulation SW known some years ago seem to suffer the same fate. While Phoenix, Aerofly and Reflex XTR are still updated now and then (like every year or so), the sites are somewhat dead and they disappear from the stores. From time to time you hear something about that big new update to come "soon" but obviously there's not much more to expect than support for VR and/or USB controllers.

I guess the whole business model is problematic to some degree. Most simulators start as a one man show, but at some point, it's necessary to get people in for marketing, modeling etc. Yet the limited target audience and the high costs for physical dongles plus limiting sales by only selling physical copies seems to have always caused a downward spiral. Like to keep things going, the company needs to create additional sales by selling crippled versions, spin-offs or upgrades/expansion packs but his slows down the development of the main product and finally stalls it. At some point, the company folds as the existing customers are not willing to buy the same product over and over again while existing flaws are never fixed and long promised feature are never introduced or only in the next (charged) version.

Honestly I don't have an answer how to overcome these problems but I guess making the products available online would be a good start to reduce production and marketing costs and to reach a larger audience. I.e. the success of Steam and GOG shows that the only working way to fight illegal downloads is to offer software online at fair prices. Usually selling more products for a cheaper price is better than selling less products for a higher price.
E.g. if people are willing to buy a $10-$20 USB Chinese dongle to use illegal, outdated, non updatable versions of Realfight or XTR, wouldn't they also buy a basic (but legal, up-to-date and extendable) version online for $20-$30? Wouldn't they be maybe willing to buy the heli/plane/drone update pack for another $20?

Still, AFAIK only Aerofly and AccuRC 2 are available on Steam and even there the marketing model seems problematic. I think VRC Pro is on a better track though I think the base price is still too high to attract casual buyers and the number of DLCs is a bit confusing. Still, according to SteamSpy, there are >10000 owners of the Steam version. Even if Steam takes a 30% cut, I can't imagine that selling 10k copies online doesn't create more profit than selling 10k card boxes with DVDs over distributors and shops.

Another option would be the cooperation with some RC model manufacturer. E.g. while Reflex XTR2 is effectively dead (even though there was an update released in late August which features the inevitable VR and USB controller support and even contains an online purchasing option), it survived the last years by a cooperation with Multiplex. So Multiplex can sell simulator bundles (Multiflight Plus) to allow their customers to train with their models at home while Reflex features the newest Multiplex models and generates some additional profit. Looks like a win-win situation even though it still seems questionable if it will save Reflex.

Last edited by 0xdeadbeef; 09-03-2017 at 06:57 AM.
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  #62  
Old 09-03-2017, 11:10 AM
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technoid technoid is offline
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Originally Posted by Bellah1z View Post
Does sharing the pain double it or divide it by 2 ?

Anyway they could at least tell us through the publisher, don't you think? They are now losing the support of even us hardcore supporters?
ha... I think it doubles the pain

And yes they should find a way to give updates to their hard core supporters, and that would be people that take the time to register and post on their forum. I mean I spent about 1800 bucks to upgrade for RF-X but failed one thing, to get the 1080 instead of the 1070. Right now I'm waiting for the new NVidia Tesla cards to come out and will get one of them, that should give me the graphics power I need for RF-X. To me the next generation CPU and GPU at their Top levels is what RF-X really needs to perform well, unless the next upgrade really speeds it up. Which I really hope they improve the rendering speed enough that a 1070 and 1920x1200 will run at 100 fps with all the settings at high.

To me if they would have improved their RF 7.5 home brew rendering engine by porting it to DX10 (gosh old you say) and improved the texture quality and the shadow quality, increased the texture size to 8k from 4k, and increased the triangle count to 50k would have been the best way to go. The radical change they made is holding them back it takes far too powerful of a system to run at what real people think of as minimum frame rates. By making the meager changes I mentioned the look of RF would have increased a lot but the demands for running it at high frame rates wouldn't have increased that much. By doubling the texture size and increasing the quality of the textures (read new artwork) RF would look like a totally different simulator in a very good way.. very low upgrade demands and still have all the features of RF 7.5. Simply put RF 8.0 should have been their target not radical change.
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  #63  
Old 09-09-2017, 04:11 AM
Bellah1z Bellah1z is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technoid View Post
ha... I think it doubles the pain

And yes they should find a way to give updates to their hard core supporters, and that would be people that take the time to register and post on their forum. I mean I spent about 1800 bucks to upgrade for RF-X but failed one thing, to get the 1080 instead of the 1070. Right now I'm waiting for the new NVidia Tesla cards to come out and will get one of them, that should give me the graphics power I need for RF-X. To me the next generation CPU and GPU at their Top levels is what RF-X really needs to perform well, unless the next upgrade really speeds it up. Which I really hope they improve the rendering speed enough that a 1070 and 1920x1200 will run at 100 fps with all the settings at high.

To me if they would have improved their RF 7.5 home brew rendering engine by porting it to DX10 (gosh old you say) and improved the texture quality and the shadow quality, increased the texture size to 8k from 4k, and increased the triangle count to 50k would have been the best way to go. The radical change they made is holding them back it takes far too powerful of a system to run at what real people think of as minimum frame rates. By making the meager changes I mentioned the look of RF would have increased a lot but the demands for running it at high frame rates wouldn't have increased that much. By doubling the texture size and increasing the quality of the textures (read new artwork) RF would look like a totally different simulator in a very good way.. very low upgrade demands and still have all the features of RF 7.5. Simply put RF 8.0 should have been their target not radical change.
I agree
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  #64  
Old 09-12-2017, 09:44 AM
sonnyhad sonnyhad is offline
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yeah, dang it, what is going on over there Knife Edge??
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  #65  
Old 09-12-2017, 10:48 AM
12oclockhigh 12oclockhigh is offline
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They are busy working their collective butts off on the next super release of RF-X and don't have time to respond every time someone is impatient.

It is usually the Oct/Nov time frame that they show up to the table with the new toys. Hang in there, it will not be long now... no I do not have any inside information whatsoever.
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  #66  
Old 09-12-2017, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by 12oclockhigh View Post
They are busy working their collective butts off on the next super release of RF-X and don't have time to respond every time someone is impatient.

It is usually the Oct/Nov time frame that they show up to the table with the new toys. Hang in there, it will not be long now... no I do not have any inside information whatsoever.
Arg... I can't wait I want it now, now I say... NOW!!!
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  #67  
Old 09-12-2017, 05:18 PM
BaMMeR991 BaMMeR991 is offline
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hope fully the next release wont require new hardware again !!
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  #68  
Old 09-13-2017, 06:16 PM
viperdriver5150 viperdriver5150 is offline
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Well I have no inside information either but from past experience the only thing that happens in Oct/Nov is usually a release of new generations of realflight. As far as updates are concerned, I have never noticed any type of a set time frame. The problem is they have a program that does not work well and my guess is they a doing a massive re-write.
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  #69  
Old 09-13-2017, 07:11 PM
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technoid technoid is offline
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Originally Posted by viperdriver5150 View Post
Well I have no inside information either but from past experience the only thing that happens in Oct/Nov is usually a release of new generations of realflight. As far as updates are concerned, I have never noticed any type of a set time frame. The problem is they have a program that does not work well and my guess is they a doing a massive re-write.
I think you're right RF-X needs a lot of refinement especially in the rendering speed. Plus the water physics need to be finished and create some lake fields. I'd love to see RF-X get faster and finish out what they didn't do before release, like the water stuff lots of people have ask about. And 2d fields, it's hard for me to believe any modern 3D engine wouldn't have support for 2D. Way back that was true but that's the stone age today. I've been playing 3D games since the Voodoo 2 came out and worked at the Cirrus Logic and 3Dfx design centers so I'm pretty familiar with what's going on in the engines and direct X. But since I retired of course things have changed and I haven't been involved with it for a long time.
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  #70  
Old 09-14-2017, 02:55 PM
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legoman legoman is offline
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At this point I don't expect an update rf-x unless it is a half-generation overhaul in October or November at the earliest late September.
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  #71  
Old 09-14-2017, 06:18 PM
12oclockhigh 12oclockhigh is offline
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The past performance would indicate an x.5 release in an odd year delivered as a free update. During an even year, they bump a full number version upgrade. This usually costs the user an update fee.

Of course, what the hell do I know? I am not in the inner circle. I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. I am merely a rabid fanatical Real Flight Diehard of uber fan dome (RFRFDUFD - pronounced: rufer-duffed). Well, not really, but I do try and cut them a break. I know just how difficult this is. No matter what, the wolves are at their doors. Everyone with a pocket protector thinks they can do it better and cheaper.

Last edited by 12oclockhigh; 09-14-2017 at 06:20 PM.
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  #72  
Old 09-14-2017, 06:21 PM
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technoid technoid is offline
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
At this point I don't expect an update rf-x unless it is a half-generation overhaul in October or November at the earliest late September.
Hopefully that's it a half generation overhaul. Works for me!
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  #73  
Old 09-14-2017, 11:49 PM
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HX3D014 HX3D014 is offline
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Howdy all? I am trying to decide between RF7.5 or RFX
My key interest is the Multiplayer, I read somewhere (Vicious rumor?) that the FR7.5 may one day lose MP ability.

I want to purchase two copies and so the decision is harder to make than just get 7.5 now and RFX when it gets multiplayer.

I also can not find info or videos of RFX in an MP session.

It has been years since I used RF3 and posted here, so I am not up to date at all.

Any help or advice is welcome.
Bryce.
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  #74  
Old 09-15-2017, 12:49 AM
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technoid technoid is offline
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Originally Posted by HX3D014 View Post
Howdy all? I am trying to decide between RF7.5 or RFX
My key interest is the Multiplayer, I read somewhere (Vicious rumor?) that the FR7.5 may one day lose MP ability.

I want to purchase two copies and so the decision is harder to make than just get 7.5 now and RFX when it gets multiplayer.

I also can not find info or videos of RFX in an MP session.

It has been years since I used RF3 and posted here, so I am not up to date at all.

Any help or advice is welcome.
Bryce.
The simple answer is. RF-X does not have multiplayer.
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  #75  
Old 09-15-2017, 04:07 AM
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HX3D014 HX3D014 is offline
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technoid, thanks, that confirms what I was finding. I was also seeing KE members suggesting that it would some day be implemented. Is this true as far as you know, IE has there been any formal information suggesting it will come one day?

Thanks again for the Reply.
Bryce.
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