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  #1  
Old 04-13-2006, 10:24 PM
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opjose opjose is offline
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Hangar 9 P-51 PTS Trainer

This is a variant of the Miss America plane posted here.

It attempts to model the size and behaviour of the Hangar 9 PTS trainer.

I just got one of these and I wanted to have a G3 plane that mirrored it's performance before I flew it.

Physics dimensions, power handling, curves, etc. are modeled upon actual measurements for a stock P-51 PTS w/o the air brakes and wing droops.

Note, for accuracy please fly with the gear DOWN.

Flaps can be raised in flight with the knob.




Changes:

I've received feedback from people who have flown both my G3 version and the actual PTS.

The following model reflects those changes, and I believe is the most accurate representation of this plane to date.

The entire aircraft is available (EA), and the variant file if you already have the prior posts (AV), and additionally two other variants. One has a 3 blade 11x6 prop and the other a two blade 11x6 prop.

With this I consider this plane "done", except for the 3D model which I may fix later.

( I'd love to get those wing droops on as well as the PTS engine and air brakes...)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Hangar 9 P-51 PTS Trainer.jpg (96.0 KB, 81 views)
Attached Files
File Type: g3x P-51 PTS Trainer_EA.G3X (2.29 MB, 411 views)
File Type: g3x P-51 PTS Trainer_AV.G3X (27.6 KB, 237 views)
File Type: g3x P-51 PTS Trainer 11x6 2 Blade Prop_AV.G3X (27.6 KB, 213 views)
File Type: g3x P-51 PTS Trainer 11x6 3 Blade Prop_AV.G3X (27.9 KB, 247 views)

Last edited by opjose; 04-16-2006 at 05:11 AM.
  #2  
Old 04-14-2006, 08:22 AM
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nemo_uk nemo_uk is offline
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will this do ? (I did it a while ago) ...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg p51.jpg (247.9 KB, 97 views)
Attached Files
File Type: g3x yellow_tail_CS.G3X (1.69 MB, 163 views)
  #3  
Old 04-14-2006, 11:12 AM
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opjose opjose is offline
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FANTASTIC!

I just need to change the spinner color, but that's easy.

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  #4  
Old 04-14-2006, 12:15 PM
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L0stS0ul L0stS0ul is offline
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Very nice plane. Let us know if the real one flies like that. I really like the feel of it in the air.
  #5  
Old 04-14-2006, 02:23 PM
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opjose opjose is offline
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I'm still tweaking this a bit.

The physical dimensions, wing loading and power curves should be right at this point.

I may need to weaken the gear and fuselage a bit.

It's amazing how much flight characteristics information you can glean from people posting their experiences with the "maiden" flights of aircraft.

e.g. someone says that they cut the power to idle at 75 ft up, and this bent/broke a gear strut as the plane came down too hard.

I knew that my model's gear were too resilient.

Another post where someone stated that all the experienced fliers though that the pilot was coming in far too high and fast for a warbird. The pilot dropped to almost idle and everyone was amazed at how quickly it decellerated.

Since he gave figures, I can adjust until I get similiar performance once the basic dimensions are in place.

I think I have the stall correct given what everyone has posted...

".. a slight wing tip stall tendancy at full idle, up elevator, which is recoverable correctible w/o adding throttle."

This model does just that!

Videos let me see take off climb angles and give me an approximation of engine power settings that the pilot used.


Great stuff.

I'm unclear about one particular post (which may be abberrant) where the pilot said that he had to constantly give full left rudder at takeoff.

No one else has reported this, and everyone says it runs fairly true down the runway with only an easily correctible roll.... hmmm... just like this model.

I suspect that the poster didn't know about adjusting the throw angles on the radio...

Last edited by opjose; 04-14-2006 at 06:02 PM.
  #6  
Old 04-14-2006, 07:07 PM
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r1derbike r1derbike is offline
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Op:

You have to give it right aileron on takeoff with firewalled throttle, because of the overstated torque with .430. If not, you will takeoff on one wheel, and drag the left wingtip.

Not your problem!

Edit: Nevermind, the above is for a "tweaked" P-51 model...my bad.

Charles
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Last edited by r1derbike; 04-14-2006 at 07:13 PM.
  #7  
Old 04-14-2006, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r1derbike
Op:

You have to give it right aileron on takeoff with firewalled throttle, because of the overstated torque with .430. If not, you will takeoff on one wheel, and drag the left wingtip.

Not your problem!

Edit: Nevermind, the above is for a "tweaked" P-51 model...my bad.

Charles
While .430 increased the torque effects, it also gave us a very easy way to adjust it.

With "Advanced" turned on in the editor, you can select the fuselage and adjust the "torque transfer" to fix "overstated" torque.


At least in the edit I posted, the amount of torque roll at takeoff, is easily corrected with the ailerons as I would expect.


BTW: I was following some threads where they said that the roll rate of this plane was a bit better than stated originally (and in my version of it).

It seems that the defaults on many of the included radios were for only 75% of total servo movement. The manual also seems to want the control surface range diminished, probably for the newbies.

Maybe a second version is in order, one with the plane conforming to the characteristics it has with out all of the "trainer" functions removed.


I still have mine in the box, awaiting the parts for the hardware modifications suggested by some of the forums, which I will do before it's maiden flight.

Until then I can only go by the posts.
  #8  
Old 04-14-2006, 09:59 PM
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r1derbike r1derbike is offline
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Thanks for the torque info, op.

I suspect many "tuners" lie awake at night, trying to get the virtual creations to fly like the real creations.

So many variables, only so much time.

I can't imagine the complexity of modeling real-world physics for virtual reality. Will leave that to the mathematicians and techs working the numbers.

Then, the brilliant manipulation of those numbers to simulate models. Daunting.
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  #9  
Old 04-14-2006, 11:36 PM
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Ok here's a more finely tuned version.

The wing loading approaches the real thing, making tip stalls a bit more pronounced, but still controllable.

Roll rates now co-incide with what people are reporting.

The engine is a tad bit more powerful (removed the damned baffle from that muffler, I did...).

This also includes a slightly reworked version of Nemo's paint scheme to more closely resemble the PTS P-51.

Can't wait to take this plane up.... but still have prep work to do.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Hangar 9 P-51 PTS Trainer.jpg (96.0 KB, 28 views)
Attached Files
File Type: g3x P-51 PTS Trainer_EA.G3X (2.29 MB, 198 views)
  #10  
Old 04-15-2006, 12:32 PM
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Great Job! Thanks to every1
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  #11  
Old 04-16-2006, 01:24 AM
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Op:

I really like your flight model. I can confirm that it will torque-roll a turn or two, before it tail-slides very sloppily (hammering controls, to try to keep it straight!) through its smoke, and hitting the deck tail first. I like it!

The snaps are no problem at all (remember .410? That version taught snap recovery better than any sim I've tried!).

Flies very nicely, I'm able to mush it around some behind the power curve too!

I know...fly it scale.

Good work!

Charles

1280X1024 Lo-Res:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P-51 PTS Trainer.jpg (287.6 KB, 43 views)
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http://photobucket.com/albums/v402/r1derbike

Click on sub albums at right sidebar.

Last edited by r1derbike; 04-16-2006 at 01:40 AM.
  #12  
Old 04-16-2006, 05:13 AM
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First post updated with new fixes.

I'm putting a ribbon on this and calling it done with the new uploads in the first message.

Feedback I've received from people that have flown the PTS indicate, that with the changes made, the G3 plane now behaves just like the real thing.
  #13  
Old 04-17-2006, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L0stS0ul
Very nice plane. Let us know if the real one flies like that. I really like the feel of it in the air.
i have flown the real one for a friend and it is close

showtime
  #14  
Old 05-16-2006, 02:32 PM
l4mbr3tt4 l4mbr3tt4 is offline
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I'm having trouble installing this one. In the zip file I downloaded, there are some "reno racer" files. I already have the reno racer and it's causing conflicts. Also, I do not see a .G3X file. I see a g3x.enc though, but the KEX file is titled reno racer.

Thanks in advance,

frank
  #15  
Old 05-16-2006, 02:53 PM
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It seems that you are unpacking the file instead of installing it via the "Import" menu.

Download and import the "EA" file above, and tell G3 to "overwrite" wherever there are ANY conflicts.

Then you can also install the variantes if you wish.
 

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