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  #46  
Old 06-27-2010, 05:32 PM
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Who is to stop someone from just re enabling the Advanced Properties tab anyway? just takes a quick Mouse click to do it and if anyone has spent any time in the editor, they know how to do it. I see having the AV or EA disable the checkmark on that selection a waste of time...
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  #47  
Old 06-27-2010, 05:41 PM
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This whole dicussion (past the first post) is pointlees.

Bottom line - you can post as many AV and CS files as you care to, even if you only change one parameter or one pixel from the original (although I'm quite sure you'll get a well deserved rating if you do so). You may not, however, post an EA without the permission of the creator of the 3D model.

Is that clear enough?
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  #48  
Old 06-27-2010, 06:04 PM
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My last word on this:

AV's are important for everyone to make and post to the swaps if they so wish. How many people in this world frankenstein models in the RW? How many people change out electronics to something with more power and speed? How many people in the RW convert models from nitro to electric and vica-versa?

I know I've made changes to every single one of my real world models to make them better than the stock version. Whether it's different parts for strength or control, or whatever makes the model fly to the way I like, it's nice to have the option to create AV's to how you interpret your RW model to fly.

Maybe someone can get the feel of how a stock model flys better with a more powerful setup than the manufacturers recommended equipment. Like my E-Flite Sukhoi 480 model. I wouldn't dare install the E-Flite DS-75 servos which E-Flite suggests. No way! I've got Hitec HS-65MG servos in it. I am going to upgrade the motor as well to a Power 10. I only have the HB servos in my T-REX, but I wouldn't trust them in my Sukhoi as much as the metal gears.

Anyhow, before I ramble too much, Realflight is my favorite SIM strictly because I can mod every single model I install and import. If I was limited, in any way, my feelings would change about the sim as a whole. As long as my models are free to download I could care less about what people do to them. Getting money for them would certainly change things, but I like sharing my stuff for free for this sim.
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  #49  
Old 06-27-2010, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhk79
This whole dicussion (past the first post) is pointlees.

Bottom line - you can post as many AV and CS files as you care to, even if you only change one parameter or one pixel from the original (although I'm quite sure you'll get a well deserved rating if you do so). You may not, however, post an EA without the permission of the creator of the 3D model.

Is that clear enough?
Doug! Are you saying "that's the way we've always done it" so we should let it stand.

Finally getting some good feedback but the original question posed remains unanswered? No hidden agenda here and nothing to hide. Just a very simple question.

Does "original content" also apply to alterations in the physics model?
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  #50  
Old 06-27-2010, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d
Does "original content" also apply to alterations in the physics model?
An AV is a modification of the physics and is "original" content for the person that created or altered it. True it may not be very original, but that's not important to being able to post it. Any AV may be posted on the Swaps (unless you perhaps received it under the table). That is your buddy emails it to you saying "hey look at this", and you in turn post it to the swaps as your own work. In that case your buddy would be completely in the right to beat the living daylights out of you, but no one on the forum will care.
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  #51  
Old 06-27-2010, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d
Does "original content" also apply to alterations in the physics model?
Changing the Physics on an EA, makes that new work an AV when posted.
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  #52  
Old 06-27-2010, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d
Does "original content" also apply to alterations in the physics model?
A physics model from scratch, yes, you have a leg to stand on, that is "original" work.
Modification of someone else's AV, is not "original"

Is that the rationale you used to upload Inky's Blackbird without his permission?
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  #53  
Old 06-27-2010, 09:31 PM
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Wow, this goes beyond me

flip3d, you've asked that exact same question directly or indirectly 6 times so far by my count, and you keep getting the same answer:

If you modify the physics, export it as an AV, and then upload that AV to swaps, it is your work and is acceptable to upload.

What part don't you understand?

If however, you download (or, ahem, "otherwise obtain") an EA or kex, and modify the physics, then post it as an EA without the original creator's permission, you have gotten out of line.

Phrank, you beat me to it on that one. That was out of line to post Inky's SR-71, and the "note" flip3d inserted at the end of the description proves he did NOT have Inky's permission to post it. (If he did, it couldn't have been "brought to his attention" that it was Inky's - he'd already have known) And giving credit "after the fact" doesn't make it right.

flip, you should keep posting the question until someone finally gives you the answer you want! Whatever answer that may be, I really don't have a clue what you're wanting to hear...

DH
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  #54  
Old 06-27-2010, 10:21 PM
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  #55  
Old 06-27-2010, 10:41 PM
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Please correct me if I am mistaken. An EA is provided a "generic" physics model as supplied in the software. This is subject to revision by the model designer. This EA when posted is considered "original content" and as such falls under the guidelines of post "1".

It appears the consensus is that an AV does not have anything that would be considered "original content"?

My thought is that an AV does have "original content" and should be subject to the same considerations as an EA as stated in post "1".

Lets face it. Some models do not work well in the simulation. This has nothing to do with the graphics model. As a designer an EA may or may not "fly" very well. An AV may be posted that perhaps works much better and as such it would surely be considered "original content"? Of course flight qualities are subject to interpretation but never the less are "original content".

This is where I question if an AV can be posted without showing the physics alterations? Perhaps this is not feasible... but perhaps it is easy to do and could be placed in an update.
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  #56  
Old 06-27-2010, 10:53 PM
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Every AV file can be looked at to see what's going on. Why on earth do you feel the need to hide the content of your AV? I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you for a software revision. Seems you're the only person who feels a need to be secretive. What brought this on?
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  #57  
Old 06-27-2010, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d
Please correct me if I am mistaken. An EA is provided a "generic" physics model as supplied in the software. This is subject to revision by the model designer. This EA when posted is considered "original content" and as such falls under the guidelines of post "1".
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding.
An _EA is an archive that contains:
* a 3D mesh created from scratch with a 3D editor.
* a colorscheme created from scratch with a paint editor.
* a physics model created from scratch with the Aircraft Editor.

An _AV is an archive that contains:
* A physics model of a stock, expansion pack, add-on or custom aircraft(_EA)
- If you make a flight model modification, you may upload the _AV with your modification NOT the _EA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d
It appears the consensus is that an AV does not have anything that would be considered "original content"?
Wrong, re--read the replies already given to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d
My thought is that an AV does have "original content" and should be subject to the same considerations as an EA as stated in post "1".

Lets face it. Some models do not work well in the simulation. This has nothing to do with the graphics model. As a designer an EA may or may not "fly" very well. An AV may be posted that perhaps works much better and as such it would surely be considered "original content"? Of course flight qualities are subject to interpretation but never the less are "original content".
Correct, the flight model is very subjective, everyone has a different interpretation of how an aircraft should fly. You may still not upload an _EA without permission of the original aircraft's author.
An _AV is usually acceptable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d
This is where I question if an AV can be posted without showing the physics alterations? Perhaps this is not feasible... but perhaps it is easy to do and could be placed in an update.
This still does not make any sense. Do you want to lock-in the Physics modifications without allowing others to improve or correct the flight model?
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  #58  
Old 06-27-2010, 11:12 PM
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flip I think I see what you're wanting now. Basically, you want to download someone's countless hours of work on an EA, change the physics to suit YOU, then post an AV of it in such a way that OTHERS are forbidden to make changes to your physics modifications.

Is that it? That would kind of defeat the whole purpose of the community, wouldn't it? To get what you're asking for, NO ONE could EVER make ANY kind of AV for the model. Not even for personal use only, since it would not be possible to edit it in the sim. They would be stuck with your idea of "perfection."

The best thing about this community is the amazing number of fascinating planes available for FREE to us. The next-best thing is the fact that we have the ability to MODIFY the physics so the plane flies like we want, and to repaint it.

It sounds to me like you are wanting to do away with that. That would be a bad thing

DH
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  #59  
Old 06-27-2010, 11:20 PM
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I think he wants to make AVs of EAs that are not at all realistic for the type of model he's working with. I've seen some of the physics even on EAs that come nowhere near what the model looks like. I saw one model that had physics components 3 feet behind the aircraft. Others have wings in the wrong place, too long, too short, etc. Maybe he wants to make the same AV for every EA that he likes, so they all fly exactly the same. If you hide the physics, no one will know for sure.
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  #60  
Old 06-27-2010, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d

This is where I question if an AV can be posted without showing the physics alterations?
WHY?...if you could not see the changes made ....how would you be able to tell if YOUR physics
model was Being "ripped off" or not
as it seems thats what your so worried about
or is it the opposite you don't want someone to see that you are using theirs with out credit?.....what? ......I don't get it??? maybe if you tell us what you're up to instead of beating around the bush we could understand
(or not) your reasoning in wanting something like that
Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d
Perhaps this is not feasible... but perhaps it is easy to do and could be placed in an update.
I SURE HOPE NOT......I think KEs time would e better spent fixing things like the airport editor errors or improving upon the hitching situation for the next update than removing a feature that has sound reasons for being in the sim in the first place(or fixing the messed up rating system)
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Last edited by Maj. Numbskully; 06-27-2010 at 11:34 PM.
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