Go Back   Knife Edge > RealFlight - Designer's Corner > RealFlight G5 & G4 - Designer's Corner
Use of this site is subject to our Terms of Use. | Technical Support is available from Great Planes Software Support.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #61  
Old 06-27-2010, 11:42 PM
flexible's Avatar
flexible flexible is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: na
Posts: 2,263
Send a message via ICQ to flexible Send a message via AIM to flexible
"Prank"
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding.
An _EA is an archive that contains:
* a 3D mesh created from scratch with a 3D editor.
* a colorscheme created from scratch with a paint editor.
* a physics model created from scratch with the Aircraft Editor.

An _AV is an archive that contains:
* A physics model of a stock, expansion pack, add-on or custom aircraft(_EA)
- If you make a flight model modification, you may upload the _AV with your modification NOT the _EA
Sombody give me a 2x4.
__________________
Fly it like it is made out of rubber
Victory or Death
"Ineptocracy"

Wings 3D for dummies
Mapping in Wings 3D for Dummies
Pivots in Max for Dummies
Linking the Hierarchy in Max for Dummies
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 06-27-2010, 11:48 PM
Maj. Numbskully's Avatar
Maj. Numbskully Maj. Numbskully is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gatesville Texas
Posts: 7,650
Are you of the mind set that the physics model that you create is so superior that no one could or should improve upon it ?.....post your YOUR AV or EA .......when someone makes an AV for it (as they have a perfect right and permission from KE to do so )
and let the people who DL it make up there own mind as to which is "Better" or more accurate...as they always have
we' almost neighbors ....I'll be over in a few with that 2x4 shortly flex
__________________
Photography MegaryT [[;]
(aka Maj. Numbskully)
https://plus.google.com/collection/IPvFbB

Last edited by Maj. Numbskully; 06-28-2010 at 12:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 06-28-2010, 12:16 AM
Maj. Numbskully's Avatar
Maj. Numbskully Maj. Numbskully is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gatesville Texas
Posts: 7,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by flexible
- If you make a flight model modification, you may upload the _AV with your modification NOT the _EA
.
I'm pretty sure he understands about not uploading someone else's EA ...
he wants to hide the things he's altered in an AV because he seems to feel that an AV is original content
but with what he wants it would seem to me to me that it would do just the opposite of what he wants........if everything IS visible it would be easier to see if someone posted the same AV as his and called it their own
if folks could hide those changes .........how would you know?.....has there been a problem with some one re=posting identical AVs and calling it there own.?..I've never heard of it
__________________
Photography MegaryT [[;]
(aka Maj. Numbskully)
https://plus.google.com/collection/IPvFbB
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 06-28-2010, 12:16 AM
dhk79's Avatar
dhk79 dhk79 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 4,399
This topic is so clear, I can't understand why there is the slightest bit of confusion.

Post any AV or CS that you want, even if you just changed the prop or did a flood fill to change a blue stripe into a green one. There are no restrictions on AVs or CSs what so ever, they could be changes to stock aircraft or custom additions. If you think it makes it better or even if you just like it more, go for it; but don't expect anyone else to agree with you.

On the other hand, only post an EA if you actually made the model or the original model's creator specifically gave you permission to post it. It generally is not hard to get permission (if there is a reason for it), just ask. For example I no longer have access to G3, so if someone else wants to convert one of my models for use in G3 I'll happily send them a KEX file and help with the physics anyway I can; then they can post a new G3 EA under thier name completely with my permission.

If you have any doubt about whether you should post, then don't.
__________________
- Knowing why ten things will not work is more important than not knowing why one does.
Doug's Project List

Last edited by dhk79; 06-28-2010 at 12:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 06-28-2010, 12:17 AM
DirtyHarry3033's Avatar
DirtyHarry3033 DirtyHarry3033 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 593
Let me go a bit further on this subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d
Please correct me if I am mistaken. An EA is provided a "generic" physics model as supplied in the software. This is subject to revision by the model designer. This EA when posted is considered "original content" and as such falls under the guidelines of post "1".
You're not mistaken on any of those points. The important thing here is "EA," which as Phrank pointed out is the "entire package" - 3D mesh, physics and color scheme. As I understand the point of this thread, THAT is what is protected - the entire package. Posting up an EA includes all of these things and by default the poster is claiming credit for all of them, since it is posted under his name.

If it is a collaboration among members, say one does the 3d work, one the physics and one the CS, hopefully the one posting will give credit to the other 2. So all is well.

What is NOT permitted, is to take someone else's EA (say your buddy who is not a member here made a model from scratch and shared the RFX with you, or you got a model off someone's personal website) and post it here without the creator's express permission.

Quote:
It appears the consensus is that an AV does not have anything that would be considered "original content"?
Wrong, the AV does have "original content," to the extent that you have changed it. But what are you changing? You are changing someone else's "original content." If you can alter the physics of the original creator, why should someone else be forbidden to alter your changes to his work

Quote:
My thought is that an AV does have "original content" and should be subject to the same considerations as an EA as stated in post "1".
Yes it does. But there are only two ways to keep people from editing that "original content":

First, to remove the editor entirely. Which means that every model would have "generic physics" only. Which, frankly, would totally suck. Not to mention, totally ruin RF's credibility as an RC sim.

Second, to "lock down" the physics. That's just as bad. Think about it, you download that cool new plane and you're stuck with whatever physics the creator came up with. No matter how good, no matter how bad.

Either way, you wouldn't be able to make the AV's that you're wanting to prevent the rest of us from looking at, or changing. Because they would be on "lockdown."

So what are you hoping to accomplish with this? Again, I'm baffled

DH
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 06-28-2010, 12:22 AM
Maj. Numbskully's Avatar
Maj. Numbskully Maj. Numbskully is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gatesville Texas
Posts: 7,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyHarry3033
Wrong, the AV does have "original content," to the extent that you have changed it. But what are you changing? You are changing someone else's "original content." If you can alter the physics of the original creator, why should someone else be forbidden to alter your changes to his work
BINGO !




Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyHarry3033
So what are you hoping to accomplish with this? Again, I'm baffled

DH
as the rest of us
__________________
Photography MegaryT [[;]
(aka Maj. Numbskully)
https://plus.google.com/collection/IPvFbB
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 06-28-2010, 12:37 AM
Norton's Avatar
Norton Norton is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: CA,
Posts: 3,796
blah blah
I Have a feeling he has found a CRACK and wants to take advantage of it?

Just say what you are tying to accomplish already???????

What is the point of this thread??????

You already know the answer that coming from KE.

Give it up already.............''

You did succeed in making a 4 page thread for no reason.
__________________
I'd like to see a 2 file per day upload limit.

TN..

Last edited by Norton; 06-28-2010 at 12:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 06-28-2010, 12:43 AM
Maj. Numbskully's Avatar
Maj. Numbskully Maj. Numbskully is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Gatesville Texas
Posts: 7,650
I was thinking the same thing ....a hack for the dog fighting/ combat in G5???..........LOL......or should we call you ............ "thegibFlipHeeleyDelton ..... just razz'in

I do have one question though flip......I thought you had posted several EA files over the years.....?
I was shocked to see that you only have one file listed at the swap page???.............and even more shocked to read above looking over this thread that it's NOT EVEN YOURS its inkys??????? and that you did not even have his permission to do so (and an EA at that)................it really seems weird that you would be so concerned about uploading your AVs as protected content??and expressing those views in a thread about uploading others content.............after doing that with one of his EAs
__________________
Photography MegaryT [[;]
(aka Maj. Numbskully)
https://plus.google.com/collection/IPvFbB

Last edited by Maj. Numbskully; 06-28-2010 at 01:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 06-28-2010, 01:22 AM
dhk79's Avatar
dhk79 dhk79 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 4,399
Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d
In posting a model would it be possible to give an option of wether or not to display the entire physics properties?
Funny, my vote on a software patch would go towards completely eliminating the "simple" view and always having all of the properties displayed.

It's kind of like editing the Windows Registry, if you don't know what you are doing - best to stay out of there. And if you do know what you are doing - notepad is not going to be of any use to you.
__________________
- Knowing why ten things will not work is more important than not knowing why one does.
Doug's Project List

Last edited by dhk79; 06-28-2010 at 01:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 06-28-2010, 06:24 AM
jeffpn's Avatar
jeffpn jeffpn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Posts: 18,386
I'm telling you - he doesn't want anyone to know how inaccurate his physics are compared to the physical model. He wants to cheat so bad on the physics, he'd be embarrassed if anyone could see what he did. That's why he wants to hide the physics.

Simple Solution:


Don't post ANYTHING!!!
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 06-28-2010, 04:01 PM
flip3d flip3d is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Plymouth, Indiana
Posts: 435
Thanks all! I certainly appreciate your input.

It should be clear that my objective is to upload an AV and have the option available wether or not to display physics alterations. All physics properties applied to a model start with the default settings so the EA is in essence a baseline graphic model that can be altered in many ways to improve (subject to interpretation) flight characteristics.

This is not meant to downplay the amazing graphic content that has been provided in the swaps. You guys do superb work and I thank you for it.

Anyone that wanted to create a new physics model (AV) could do the same. Just wipe clean the physics from an EA and have at it.

Your thoughts please.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 06-28-2010, 04:06 PM
jeffpn's Avatar
jeffpn jeffpn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Posts: 18,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d
Just wipe clean the physics from an EA and have at it.
What does that have to do with hiding the physics? I feel we're no nearer an explanation from you than when we started. BTW, what happened to all those AV files you used to have posted?
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 06-28-2010, 04:42 PM
mwilson914's Avatar
mwilson914 mwilson914 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North Bend, WA
Posts: 2,112
People could always override whatever parameter they want with the .rfvehicle file anyhow. Model physics are an after-thought to me for any and every model available either KE or user created. (meaning I can overlook the physics and change them entirely without any intent of making the model fly better, rather only to fly different.)

The model physics are open to interpretation no matter how good or bad they are, but interpreting the visual quality of a model or CS isn't something that is done nearly as easily. If the model looks ugly and poorly done, no matter what is done with the physcis, I won't want to fly that model, period.

Hiding the model physics makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Doing so would only handicap the software.
__________________
http://mwilson914.jimdo.com

Don't let physical inactivity take away your health. It's a hard lesson for those of us with desk jobs, but also for those that work at home from a PC as a second source of income. I'm lucky to still be alive.

Last edited by mwilson914; 06-28-2010 at 04:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 06-28-2010, 04:47 PM
jeffpn's Avatar
jeffpn jeffpn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Posts: 18,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwilson914
Hiding the model physics makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Doing so would only handicap the software.
I've seen a couple posts in this thread saying this. Moot point, though. I don't think KE needs to be talked out of instituting his idea. He's swimming upstream!! He's going to the Super Bowl at the end of the fourth quarter!! He's going the other way on a one way street!!
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 06-28-2010, 04:53 PM
phrank's Avatar
phrank phrank is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Milpitas, CA
Posts: 4,682
Careful what you wish for, you may not like the outcome.

Let's say I create a model, and I feel that what I submitted is without question the most accurate representation of a real life model. I lock-in the changes preventing anyone else from creating a colorscheme or variant or even seeing what's under the hood.

That stifles not only creativity from the forums, but also a reference from what someone else can learn from.
It is by looking at someone else's work that we learned how to create and share our work to both thankful and thankless many who come here solely for the free content.

What you're asking for is Realflight Basic.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flip3d
It should be clear that my objective is to upload an AV and have the option available wether or not to display physics alterations.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:32 PM.