Go Back   Knife Edge > RealFlight - Current Products > RealFlight Basic
Use of this site is subject to our Terms of Use. | Technical Support is available from Great Planes Software Support.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-11-2009, 10:41 PM
jfryjfry jfryjfry is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4
it's great and it's horrible - manual???

I have never flown anything rc before and just got a helicopter -- a 25-year long desire. i got a decent one, not something cheesy, and saw the simulator in the shop and figured it could save me a lot of headache and dough so i just got the cheap one as all i need to do is learn to fly and practice.

and it does it great.

I'm not sure if you're going to get any noob's like myself complaining about skins and importing etc etc as I, and I'm sure others, too, just want to practice and learn.

so the compatibility issue with rf basic and others, for me, is moot.

however, no manual? now here is an issue... you have to provide SOMEthing besides these lame ikea-esque start instructions.

i have no idea how but i already knew what the controls were for an airplane, but had to figure out the helicopter controls using the manual for my helicopter.

some basic flying instructions would be great. this is the 'basic' set up afterall...

and please make available a list with all the aircraft and their characteristics and specific controls (landing gear, harrier nozzle direction, etc).
i have no idea which planes and helicopters are easy or not, which ones respond quickly, which ones can do acrobatics, which ones are forgiving...

games and simulators these days don't even come with manuals -- they come with books. literally. i was sorely disappointed to find some icons on a sheet of high quality paper.

Last edited by jfryjfry; 11-11-2009 at 10:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-12-2009, 12:21 AM
Zelatio's Avatar
Zelatio Zelatio is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfryjfry
I have never flown anything rc before and just got a helicopter -- a 25-year long desire. i got a decent one, not something cheesy, and saw the simulator in the shop and figured it could save me a lot of headache and dough so i just got the cheap one as all i need to do is learn to fly and practice.

and it does it great.

I'm not sure if you're going to get any noob's like myself complaining about skins and importing etc etc as I, and I'm sure others, too, just want to practice and learn.

so the compatibility issue with rf basic and others, for me, is moot.

however, no manual? now here is an issue... you have to provide SOMEthing besides these lame ikea-esque start instructions.

i have no idea how but i already knew what the controls were for an airplane, but had to figure out the helicopter controls using the manual for my helicopter.

some basic flying instructions would be great. this is the 'basic' set up afterall...

and please make available a list with all the aircraft and their characteristics and specific controls (landing gear, harrier nozzle direction, etc).
i have no idea which planes and helicopters are easy or not, which ones respond quickly, which ones can do acrobatics, which ones are forgiving...

games and simulators these days don't even come with manuals -- they come with books. literally. i was sorely disappointed to find some icons on a sheet of high quality paper.
I believe they are in PDF format. While in your game, go to the help menu, there should be an option called Contents.

Also, making a list would be silly. Fly them all! You paid for all those models, so take advantage of them!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-12-2009, 02:33 AM
opjose's Avatar
opjose opjose is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Third rocky planet.
Posts: 12,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfryjfry

some basic flying instructions would be great. this is the 'basic' set up afterall...
There are some great RC Helicopter oriented web sites that are aimed at helping a newbie get started.

These do a much better job than basic flying instructions for a sim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfryjfry

and please make available a list with all the aircraft and their characteristics and specific controls (landing gear, harrier nozzle direction, etc).
Except for the more exotic aircraft such as the harriers, the SIM uses the same controls and mappings as regular RC aircraft, so there is not much variance.

Flight characteristics are hard to describe to a newbie.

What difference does it make to you if I tell you that the YAK is a 3D aircraft?

I've properly described it... so while telling you that a particular aircraft is a suitable trainer, beyond that, it is best to get proficient with a beginner's model ( e.g. a trainer ) and then try flying the other aircraft to get a sense of the differences in flight.

Of couse asking here also works, so if you have a question on a specific plane, please feel free to ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfryjfry

i have no idea which planes and helicopters are easy or not, which ones respond quickly, which ones can do acrobatics, which ones are forgiving...
A good question.

Bascially anything labeled as a "trainer" are forgiving, and what you should start out with.

e.g. the "trainer" helis or planes.

Because learning to fly a heli is relatively complex and requires a LOT of anticipatory responses from you ( and "muscle memory" ), it takes a lot of practice before things click.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfryjfry

games and simulators these days don't even come with manuals -- they come with books. literally. i was sorely disappointed to find some icons on a sheet of high quality paper.
As Zelatio pointed out, there is a PDF manual included.

It is guaranteed to make your head swim!
__________________
Quote:
Newbies please click here for important instructions about forum posts: CLICK ME!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-12-2009, 04:57 AM
12oclockhigh 12oclockhigh is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,469
Heli vs. Plane

Almost two years ago, I might have been the author of your message. No manual will tell you what you want to know. Please tell me you did not buy the blade 400. Flying helis was something I had wanted to do for 20 years when I built an RC trainer plane from a kit and never flew it. First of all you need to get acquainted with an RC flier. Find a field near you. The hobby store you bought the heli from can tell you where. Visit the field a dozen times sit around and listen to the discussions. BE THE SPONGE.

Personally, I think you need some stick time on something more forgiving than a heli. You can get into the air faster with a plane. Some foamies are inexpensive and forgiving. You need to learn to move the sticks without thinking. I learned to fly both planes and helis on the simulator. If you stick to training, the sim is the perfect tool. If you are flying the warbirds around, that is not training... however, stick time is stick time. You should practice 15-30 minutes a day for a couple of months. You should be able to fly several battery packs in a row without crashing.

I highly recommend that you put the new heli on the shelf for 6 months. There are places on the web with video heli schools... search for those and listen to what they have to say... listen again and again.

I am flying both aircraft types outside in the wild now. If you don't listen, you may become discouraged quickly and abandon this project. You are going to crash, gravity is undefeated. Simulators reduce the cost of crashing SUBSTANTIALLY. You need an experienced friend to help with the heli setup, as you don't have a clue yet how fix things.... and a RTF heli is not always RTF as I have learned the hard way.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jfryjfry
I have never flown anything rc before and just got a helicopter -- a 25-year long desire. i got a decent one, not something cheesy, and saw the simulator in the shop and figured it could save me a lot of headache and dough so i just got the cheap one as all i need to do is learn to fly and practice.

and it does it great.

I'm not sure if you're going to get any noob's like myself complaining about skins and importing etc etc as I, and I'm sure others, too, just want to practice and learn.

so the compatibility issue with rf basic and others, for me, is moot.

however, no manual? now here is an issue... you have to provide SOMEthing besides these lame ikea-esque start instructions.

i have no idea how but i already knew what the controls were for an airplane, but had to figure out the helicopter controls using the manual for my helicopter.

some basic flying instructions would be great. this is the 'basic' set up afterall...

and please make available a list with all the aircraft and their characteristics and specific controls (landing gear, harrier nozzle direction, etc).
i have no idea which planes and helicopters are easy or not, which ones respond quickly, which ones can do acrobatics, which ones are forgiving...

games and simulators these days don't even come with manuals -- they come with books. literally. i was sorely disappointed to find some icons on a sheet of high quality paper.

Last edited by 12oclockhigh; 11-12-2009 at 05:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-12-2009, 06:37 AM
jeffpn's Avatar
jeffpn jeffpn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Posts: 18,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfryjfry
i have no idea how but i already knew what the controls were for an airplane, but had to figure out the helicopter controls using the manual for my helicopter.

some basic flying instructions would be great. this is the 'basic' set up afterall...
The controls for your real heli are the same as the controls in RF, as a rule. It is not RF's job to teach you the fundamentals of flying RC, rather to let you practice those fundamentals.

Basic flying instructions should be provided by an experienced person at your local field. That's a much more interactive way of learning. Practicing can be done on RF. I had no idea how to fly a heli before I got RF. I messed around with it, and complained that the helis all fell over on to their left sides when I took off. Something must be wrong with the software, right? Well I finally got a real heli with a tail rotor, and when I took it off, it tried to fall over on it's left side.

Bottom line, you'll get more out of RF if you use it to practice flying, and less to teach you how to fly.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-12-2009, 06:51 AM
12oclockhigh 12oclockhigh is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,469
Cheese is for Wisconsin

You just might have gotten it backwards... you should have gotten a cheesy beginner heli and the best simulator. Some two counter rotating blade helis are a good way to start... I also saw one guy buy a $3k trex 600e to start with... bigger helis are more stable. There are many paths... As said previously, it is not the simulators job to teach you to fly... common misconception. The full version of RF has a heli trainer.... don't know about basic.

Software does not come with manuals any more... fact of life. They keep cost down that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfryjfry
I have never flown anything rc before and just got a helicopter -- a 25-year long desire. i got a decent one, not something cheesy, and saw the simulator in the shop and figured it could save me a lot of headache and dough so i just got the cheap one as all i need to do is learn to fly and practice.

Last edited by 12oclockhigh; 11-12-2009 at 06:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-12-2009, 05:54 PM
jfryjfry jfryjfry is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4
sheesh...

well, I shall make this my last post as well...
the people at the hobby store were super helpful, nice, etc etc.

all i pointed out was THERE IS NO MANUAL.
there is no pdf. there is no help file. there is nothing.

someone posted software doesn't come with manuals... seriously? i've NEVER seen software that didn't have a manual. most software comes with manuals that are bound because there are so many pages.

If I fly every aircraft to ascertain their characteristics (as suggested), at just 5 minutes each, that's almost 4 hours of sitting in front of my computer.
c'mon... YOU might not have better things to do, but I just want to practice flying, not doing research.

some of you guys might like starting out with the fun foamie planes, and some of you guys might like starting out with an easy helicopter, but I've rather enjoyed flying on this sim, then going out and flying my cp pro. I've managed to hover about 5' off the ground pretty good, and haven't broken anything yet. I will, but this simulator hopefully will minimize it.

the simulator needs a manual, and i'm sure that SOME people would appreciate a simple diagram of the sticks and what they do.

and i beg to differ that i should learn fundamentals at an airfield. why?
what's the difference between reading what the sticks do and having someone tell me?
i read what they do (in another manual) and i'm having no problem flying the helicopters. i'm not great, but if i keep flying, i hope to be.

games these days are WAAAY more than just games -- they are an experience.

ALL i am saying is that a simple manual (that most of you guys would apparently never need or look at) would make this simulator a lot more enjoyable AND USEFUL for those of us low-level plebes.

Last edited by jfryjfry; 11-12-2009 at 06:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-12-2009, 06:28 PM
opjose's Avatar
opjose opjose is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Third rocky planet.
Posts: 12,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfryjfry
sheesh...

all i pointed out was THERE IS NO MANUAL.
there is no pdf. there is no help file. there is nothing.

ALL i am saying is that a simple manual (that most of you guys would apparently never need or look at) would make this simulator a lot more enjoyable AND USEFUL for those of us low-level plebes.
There should have been a PDF manual.

Contact Realflight/GP Tech support about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfryjfry
sheesh...

If I fly every aircraft to ascertain their characteristics (as suggested), at just 5 minutes each, that's almost 4 hours of sitting in front of my computer.
No one said you had to do each and every plane or heli. ( Though four hours on the sim will seem to be a tiny amount after a while. )

All you need to do is to start out with those that are called "trainers".
__________________
Quote:
Newbies please click here for important instructions about forum posts: CLICK ME!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-12-2009, 06:29 PM
jeffpn's Avatar
jeffpn jeffpn is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Posts: 18,386
I do agree that RFB ought to come with a manual. Every other version there ever was of RF has. Not a hard copy manual, but a virtual manual. I still don't think that it's the responsibility of RF to teach you how to fly an rc plane. Luckily, there's a ton of information available on the Internet to do that. RF also will not teach you how to plumb up your fuel system, or tune your engine, either.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-12-2009, 06:33 PM
Zelatio's Avatar
Zelatio Zelatio is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,207
The manual is not going to tell you what you are looking for. It has no recommendations or instructions on what or how to fly. It goes through the options and menus of the sim. Also, to the comment you have never seen software without manuals. I'm with the other person. I haven't even had a computer much less software come with printed manuals more than maybe ten page overview for about the past ten years.

I will teach you how to fly right here, in the way that most do it. Pick a random heli, preferably something big and quick, and learn to fly it. Learn to hover it, nose in, nose out. Learn to do circles, loops, autorotations, whatever. Just build up your thumb muscles. Dumbthumbs are the biggest enemy of RCers. Once you can do all the basics and not crash, pick a helicopter that is a little smaller. It will have completely different flying characteristics. Do that all over. Then, pick a smaller heli. Do it again. After this process with about ten hours on the sim, switch to planks. Fly planks till you can hover and fly inverted. Do everything you can. Then, switch back to heli's. See if you can continue flying the way you had before. Then, finally, try to fly your real helicopter after you get some help from people at your flying field. See how you do it.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-12-2009, 10:47 PM
jfryjfry jfryjfry is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by opjose
No one said you had to do each and every plane or heli. ( Though four hours on the sim will seem to be a tiny amount after a while. )
um, yeah -- the first response did:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelatio
Also, making a list would be silly. Fly them all! You paid for all those models, so take advantage of them!
I have no prob with flying them all -- I'm just saying that a simple manual would save me 4 hours of flying to determine which ones are easy, are acrobatic, etc etc.

and the mfg apparently doesn't think it's that silly -- I should have looked, but there is a list on the box. this simple list that separates each plane into categories like "trainer," "jet," "aerobatic" etc is incredibly helpful to someone who has no idea how a plane flies by just looking at a graphic of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by opjose
All you need to do is to start out with those that are called "trainers".
only one has the word "trainer" by it. and that one word was incredibly helpful.
now that I found this list that separates them, I can go right to the ones that are easier to fly.
but you're right -- that IS all I need. and it makes a huge difference.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpn
I still don't think that it's the responsibility of RF to teach you how to fly an rc plane. .
seriously? the only other thing it could possibly do is provide entertainment, or both. if you, as an awesome pilot, fly the sim to improve your skills, then it's teaching you how to fly an rc plane.
just like it's teaching me, a beginner, how to fly, only on a more basic level.

all I had mentioned was that it would be helpful to some (not you) to have a description of what the controls do, and any nuances.

It sounds like people are saying, "if you don't know what the sticks do, then you shouldn't be flying." but seriously, it took maybe 4 sentences to tell me what the sticks did and i was instantly flying. I don't need to hang out for multiple days to learn that stuff.
on the contrary, now that i've learned basics without taking anyone else's time, I can go and watch and even talk and learn things that I can practice on the sim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpn
RF also will not teach you how to plumb up your fuel system, or tune your engine, either.
if it was advertised as a plane building simulator, I would expect it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelatio
I haven't even had a computer much less software come with printed manuals more than maybe ten page overview for about the past ten years.
an overview would be fine. something that goes through what you're about to see. Have you seen the manual for photoshop? excel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zelatio
I will teach you how to fly right here, in the way that most do it. Pick a random heli, preferably something big and quick, and learn to fly it.
perfect -- how do i know which ones are big and quick? that's my point -- a simple overview as you state would be great.

i didn't post here complaining that i bought this and after 5 minutes i'm not an expert.... I am just pointing out that a simple manual (a few pages even) describing what is in the package would be great for people like me. NOT for people like you guys, obviously.
you can argue why it wouldn't be helpful to me, but i'm telling you that it would be -- i had to track down basic info that, imho, should have been in the box.
just finding the lists on the box has been very helpful.
now that i have it, i'm set -- i'm flying and having a blast and learning.
and, fwiw, enjoying flying my real helicopter (that apparently should be on a shelf) just as much.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-13-2009, 12:06 PM
opjose's Avatar
opjose opjose is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Third rocky planet.
Posts: 12,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfryjfry

only one has the word "trainer" by it. and that one word was incredibly helpful.
now that I found this list that separates them, I can go right to the ones that are easier to fly.

but you're right -- that IS all I need. and it makes a huge difference.
Also bare in mind that what constitutes a more advanced trainer can be fairly subjective.

Once you are beyond those planes or helis that are actually labeled trainers, some of what may be considered advanced planes are suitable for the next steps.

In the plane world some light 3D planes will fly very slowly, so if they are set to low rates, they are a good practice mechanism for more advanced training flights.

In the heli arena, using a larger size heli, with the idleup switch set to it's lowest setting, is far more helpful than a small twitchy electric.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jfryjfry

all I had mentioned was that it would be helpful to some (not you) to have a description of what the controls do, and any nuances.
Yes, and that should be included in the manual.
__________________
Quote:
Newbies please click here for important instructions about forum posts: CLICK ME!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-13-2009, 05:32 PM
12oclockhigh 12oclockhigh is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,469
Glad to find out that you consider the Blade CP a decent helicopter not something cheesy.... that explains a few things, I thought you had spent a lot more $500+ Good luck to you. Hope you figure things out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfryjfry
I have never flown anything rc before and just got a helicopter -- a 25-year long desire. i got a decent one, not something cheesy, and saw the simulator in the shop and figured it could save me a lot of headache and dough so i just got the cheap one as all i need to do is learn to fly and practice.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-13-2009, 11:05 PM
jfryjfry jfryjfry is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12oclockhigh
Glad to find out that you consider the Blade CP a decent helicopter not something cheesy.... that explains a few things, I thought you had spent a lot more $500+ Good luck to you. Hope you figure things out.

wow, that sounds a little sarcastic and condescending.
and all for saying that it would be nice to have a description of what is to be found within the program.

apologies in advance if it was not.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-14-2009, 04:41 AM
12oclockhigh 12oclockhigh is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,469
Here's a note... I wish that I had spent some time at the flying field before purchasing ANYTHING. The hobby store has one objective; sell what ever is on the shelf. I could have gotten a lot more for my money and so could you. Guys at the field can tell you what works and what does not. Everybody has an opinion, so you cannot rely on one voice unless you are lucky. Trust your eyes, watch what flies really well and ask about it. Do the research... read the mags...

The Real Flight Basic sim was a good choice. Blade CP, I think not. My Opinion....

Last edited by 12oclockhigh; 11-14-2009 at 04:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.