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  #16  
Old 07-25-2017, 06:08 PM
Moto-Guzzi Moto-Guzzi is offline
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Rigging.....the biggest P.I.A. on a real world scale model Jenny...Made many a model Jenny since I was 8 or 10.....dozens probably...they dont look right without it, but its REALLY EASY to have a cluttered looking mess halfway through. Problem is, once you start, you never know where to STOP.....

The real plane has over a MILE of wire bracing, and like +300 turnbuckles to keep it all taught.....all those struts and rigging are like lace, or a flying Eiffel Tower...

Attached are some Jenny pics that show the rigging, and some screen shots of other RF7 planes that have similar rigging.

IMHO, aside from the Iconic Loop Strut on the lower wing, its the "suspension bridge" rigging on the upper King Posts that defines the Jenny....however much (or little) rigging beyond that to blend it together is the hardest part...too much gets overwhelming, too little makes the King Posts stick out like a sore thumb.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Jenny Rigging 1.jpg (70.0 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg Jenny Rigging 2.jpg (55.7 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Jenny Rigging 3.jpg (51.8 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg Bristol F2B.jpg (222.6 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg Bristol F2B 1.jpg (216.1 KB, 15 views)
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  #17  
Old 07-25-2017, 06:50 PM
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doug schluter doug schluter is offline
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the planes you have look good and yes its an under cambered airfoil for sure
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  #18  
Old 07-25-2017, 07:04 PM
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Moto, if you think rigging a Jenny is hard, try doing an old 3 masted ship, YIKES !!!
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  #19  
Old 07-25-2017, 07:09 PM
Moto-Guzzi Moto-Guzzi is offline
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Moto, if you think rigging a Jenny is hard, try doing an old 3 masted ship, YIKES !!!
Inside a BOTTLE no less!!

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  #20  
Old 07-25-2017, 07:29 PM
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OUCH !!!, So you had to play your one-upmanship card eh, that was a stinger
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  #21  
Old 07-25-2017, 08:11 PM
Moto-Guzzi Moto-Guzzi is offline
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Jenny Engines and Radiators...

For those interested in All The Nuances, this is not a perfect explanation but it will get you more than halfway there....

The Original Curtiss OX-5 engine was often called an accident waiting to happen...1912-1915 engine technology, exposed valve gear, REALLY primitive fuel and ignition systems, leaky water pump right above the carb.....eeesh!

By the middle-late 1920's, the OX-5 was obsolete and spares were getting hard to find....Hispano-Suiza had several popular, reliable airplane engines on the market, and many (most?) Barnstorming, Mail Carrying, and early Passenger Service Jenny's were eventually re-fitted with one...

Basically, if you see a Jenny with exposed valve gear (springs, levers shafts etc) sticking out in the open, its an OX-5 engine....if you see a modern-looking valve COVER on the engine, its a "Hisso"

Lots of Restored Jennys run with a "period correct" Hisso instead of an absolutely, 100% "factory correct" OX-5 power-plant, simply because there are more vintage Hisso engines out there...

As for 3-d modeling of the engine, go with the Hisso....gotta be easier to render (and paint!) and the valve gear would not be that noticeable anyway!

Radiators.....The Jenny Radiator was brass, with a rounded top and a noticeable filler neck and cap. The sides and bottom were flat, matching the "squareness" of the fuse cowling...

There are vintage pictures (and real-life restorations) that have rounded/oval shaped radiators, but thats not original... they tend to show up in later Jennys with replacement engines...for instance, the Rhinebeck Jenny runs a Hisso and round bottom radiator. Was the flat-side radiator too small to begin with, or do the Hissos need more cooling area?

I dont know, but it looks a little funny to me from a purely aesthetic standpoint.

I like the original flat-sides, because all the models I built as a kid were that way!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Jenny radiator.jpg (18.1 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg Jenny Radiator 2.jpg (238.1 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg OX5 square radiator.jpg (80.6 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg Hisso Round Rad.jpg (338.4 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by Moto-Guzzi; 07-25-2017 at 08:36 PM.
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  #22  
Old 07-25-2017, 08:24 PM
Moto-Guzzi Moto-Guzzi is offline
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OUCH !!!, So you had to play your one-upmanship card eh, that was a stinger
No, I never did the ship in a bottle thing.....I made a mess of Revels Plastic "USS Constitution" with moms sewing thread (too thick, wrong color, sagging), cried my eys out for days, and never went back to sailing ships...thats for "professionals"!!

Tanks and airplanes... firecrackers, match-heads, and that (flammable!) red-metal-tube of Testors Model Glue....I had a whole "special effects" career planned out long before the first Star Wars movie..... then these dang computers came along and ruined EVERYTHING!
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  #23  
Old 07-25-2017, 08:36 PM
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Moto-Guzzi

Thanks for all the pictures they help. It will definitely be the square radiator and the engine I'm not quite sure of yet but the modern engine would certainly be the easiest one to model.. so we'll see. Have you seen the Bi-Plane I designed, the Big Red on the swaps it has some nice rigging I think. I also modeled a nice radial for it.

http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/down...d%2001_C5X.jpg
http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/down...d%2002_kvx.jpg
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  #24  
Old 07-25-2017, 08:42 PM
Moto-Guzzi Moto-Guzzi is offline
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Originally Posted by technoid View Post
Moto-Guzzi

Thanks for all the pictures they help. It will definitely be the square radiator and the engine I'm not quite sure of yet but the modern engine would certainly be the easiest one to model.. so we'll see. Have you seen the Bi-Plane I designed, the Big Red on the swaps it has some nice rigging I think. I also modeled a nice radial for it.

http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/down...d%2001_C5X.jpg
http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/down...d%2002_kvx.jpg

Love that Big Red its one of my favorites!
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  #25  
Old 07-25-2017, 08:49 PM
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HA HA , The Constitution, was my first ship, built it when I was about between 16/18 yrs. old (without sails) came out real nice, stupid me, displayed it where it could get blown off the dresser I had it on, You think I would have learned after 2/3 times, not to leave it there, but NO!!! surprisingly, it never really sustained (much) damage, but after the 2/3 time I got fed up, and stomped on it. I`ve regretted that for all my life.
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  #26  
Old 07-25-2017, 09:09 PM
Moto-Guzzi Moto-Guzzi is offline
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Control Surface and rigging......

The Jenny is just out of control with the rigging...the ones I always omit on (plastic) models are the ones running from main wing to the nose, (most plans/models dont even show them) and the ones running from the Aileron Horns (they over complicate whats going on by the King Posts

Ones I like if well executed are on the rear control surfaces.....Wires emanate from the rear fuse sides and run to the top and bottom elevator horns....from the horns, it becomes THREE wires that spread like fingers to the trailing edge of the elevator, top and bottom....

Same situation for the rudder...with different size wires, (smaller from the horns to the trailing edges) it has a nice effect as long as they "appear" to be taught.....I've often used melted/stretched plastic sprue rather than wire or thread because it's rigid and wont sag....

But the problem with scale models is, there is almost nowhere to PICK UP the plane with so much fragile rigging....one spot below the rear cockpit combing can accommodate a thumb and middle finger on either side (index finger on top wing leading edge for balance!) but woe to you if there are fresh DECALS there!!!!

I've got two more plastic 1/48 scale Jennys on my desk in various stages....

Its agony..... perfect, beautiful AGONY, just like when I was a kid!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Jenny Tail.jpg (293.7 KB, 9 views)
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  #27  
Old 07-25-2017, 09:12 PM
Moto-Guzzi Moto-Guzzi is offline
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Originally Posted by uncle twist View Post
HA HA , The Constitution, was my first ship, built it when I was about between 16/18 yrs. old (without sails) came out real nice, stupid me, displayed it where it could get blown off the dresser I had it on, You think I would have learned after 2/3 times, not to leave it there, but NO!!! surprisingly, it never really sustained (much) damage, but after the 2/3 time I got fed up, and stomped on it. I`ve regretted that for all my life.
I was like 8 or 9, and I loved how every time I attached a new rigging thread and snugged it up ever so slightly to keep it straight, three others would sag elsewhere....damn plastic masts, WTF!!!!

Loose saggy rigging after all that WORK! "MOMMMM its just not FAIR!!!"
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  #28  
Old 07-25-2017, 09:26 PM
Moto-Guzzi Moto-Guzzi is offline
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The Canuck Jenny.....

Some Jennys were built in Canada with minor differences to their US counterparts, the most noticeable being a smaller, rounder rudder

Something about the bigger tail on the American Jenny that just looks better...more "old-fashioned" or something...

Notice the location of the Marine Decals?

Now go up a couple comments...

Yeah, Uh-huh, I did that
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Canuck Jenny.jpg (157.4 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Marine Jenny.jpg (128.7 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by Moto-Guzzi; 07-25-2017 at 09:29 PM.
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  #29  
Old 07-26-2017, 01:42 AM
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I have a question for everyone. I need some latitude on the rigging, is that okay?

By that I mean I want to create an RC plane, not the real one. If you look at Jenny models you'll see no rigging at all to a ball of wire looking plane. I want to have enough to look good but not every wire on the real plane. So let me know what you think about it.
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  #30  
Old 07-26-2017, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technoid View Post
I have a question for everyone. I need some latitude on the rigging, is that okay?

By that I mean I want to create an RC plane, not the real one. If you look at Jenny models you'll see no rigging at all to a ball of wire looking plane. I want to have enough to look good but not every wire on the real plane. So let me know what you think about it.
Do what you`re happy with Technoid, Me personally, I`ve never liked to much of it (rigging) in RF, just because of the way it looks in RF, I "THINK" Moto is more concerned more about the structural/physical ??? details And not so much the rigging, yet, still would like a "fair" amount. In the end, it`s your call.
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