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  #61  
Old 07-27-2017, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Watch the triangle counts with the roundness your using.

Edit Also I would assume max has a circurlarize function I use it in wings all the time on line segments.
I have 1,296 triangles now. I didn't see something called circurlarize but what does it do in wings? I'll do a google on it.
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  #62  
Old 07-27-2017, 04:56 PM
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should be a mighty fine Jenny when your done technoid , i'm looking forward to trying it out as well as Moto-Guzzi's CS's
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  #63  
Old 07-27-2017, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by technoid View Post
I have 1,296 triangles now. I didn't see something called circurlarize but what does it do in wings? I'll do a google on it.
Circurlarize has two main functions in wings 3d.
1. When used on a complete ring(s) of edges, it flattens, make a regular n-sided ring (circle ish)
2. When used on a incomplete ring or a contiguous group(s) of non-intersecting, non solo edges it will make a arc of n-degrees in the direction that the edges are already pointed in or if they are in a straight line it will default to the normal of the edges
You can also over ride the default axis selection with right click I think.

I forgot to mention this but you need to be in edge mode. Sorry. I believe it does exist in max although I am not sure about part two or an over ride
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  #64  
Old 07-27-2017, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Circurlarize has two main functions in wings 3d.
1. When used on a complete ring(s) of edges, it flattens, make a regular n-sided ring (circle ish)
2. When used on a incomplete ring or a contiguous group(s) of non-intersecting, non solo edges it will make a arc of n-degrees in the direction that the edges are already pointed in or if they are in a straight line it will default to the normal of the edges
You can also over ride the default axis selection with right click I think.

I forgot to mention this but you need to be in edge mode. Sorry. I believe it does exist in max although I am not sure about part two or an over ride
Thanks. I did a Google on it and found that. It seems to do the same thing I do by hand. I also selected one or more edges in max but still didn't see it. But I may be missing it still. I'll Google it and 3ds max and see if I find anything on it. But I'm good doing it the way I do it, that seems to work okay for my simple needs. I'll let you know if I finally find it in max though.
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  #65  
Old 07-27-2017, 10:38 PM
Moto-Guzzi Moto-Guzzi is offline
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When you say chamfer, are you talking about making the leading edges (particularly on the tail surfaces) look more like an airfoil than a flat piece of balsa?

I've noticed that on a lot of models...the horizontal stab and rudder have no roundness on the leading edges....granted, lots of models ARE made with flat balsa so I suppose thats proper....Most I tinker with even have "flat balsa" listed as the airfoil on the edit page

It must take a lot more resources (poly count, tedium...even the eventual frame rate to render them?) to make true airfoil shapes for the eppenage...

Learning a lot here, awesome thread!
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  #66  
Old 07-28-2017, 12:27 AM
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Are you going to try to make it 6.5 compatible or just 7.5 ? I think the 27K count is going to be limiting enough let alone going lower for 6.5.
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  #67  
Old 07-28-2017, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto-Guzzi View Post
When you say chamfer, are you talking about making the leading edges (particularly on the tail surfaces) look more like an airfoil than a flat piece of balsa?

I've noticed that on a lot of models...the horizontal stab and rudder have no roundness on the leading edges....granted, lots of models ARE made with flat balsa so I suppose thats proper....Most I tinker with even have "flat balsa" listed as the airfoil on the edit page

It must take a lot more resources (poly count, tedium...even the eventual frame rate to render them?) to make true airfoil shapes for the eppenage...

Learning a lot here, awesome thread!
You're correct. When I say chamfer I mean rounding off the square edge of the leading and trailing edges of hstabs and vstabs made of flat balsa. And yes that takes more 3d resources and affects the frame rate because the computer must draw all the 3d resources for each frame. But if you can fly my Big Red smoothly you're fine for this plane too. Big Red was right at the maximum poly count allowed for RF 7.5 (27k triangles).

The flat balsa in the physics editor does NOT account for the fact the piece has been chamfered so it edges are round it's just an airfoil type and essentially tells RealFlight there is NO airfoil.
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  #68  
Old 07-28-2017, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by BrokeDad View Post
Are you going to try to make it 6.5 compatible or just 7.5 ? I think the 27K count is going to be limiting enough let alone going lower for 6.5.
The cool thing about Legoman's kex file modification is now you can create models for RF 7.5 using it's maximum limit then after applying his patch to the 7.5 KEX file it now works just fine in RF 6.5 too. Apparently the rendering engine for 6.5 only checks what EXPORTER was used when the KEX file was created so once you use Legoman's modification changing the EXPORTER signature from 7.5 to 6.5 it works with 27k triangles too. What a cool find, thanks again Legoman.
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  #69  
Old 07-28-2017, 08:36 AM
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I woke up at 2am and couldn't get back to sleep so I started working on Jenny. So here it is 7:30 and no sleep but we have wings. I do still need to cut out the ailerons. Notice the smooth curves on the wing tips and pilot cutouts, lots of segments again. The current triangle count is 3,108. Here's a render for you it actually looks like a plane now. All the parts were created on top of the plan and are sized exactly to the plan, since I'm not really a Jenny person do these pictures look right?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Curtiss JN-4D Jenny 06.jpg (208.8 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg Curtiss JN-4D Jenny 07.jpg (173.3 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg Curtiss JN-4D Jenny 08.jpg (184.4 KB, 8 views)
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  #70  
Old 07-28-2017, 09:59 AM
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I just finished adding the ailerons so I thought I'd drop by and post a render of them
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File Type: jpg Curtiss JN-4D Jenny 09.jpg (184.9 KB, 7 views)
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  #71  
Old 07-28-2017, 10:11 AM
12oclockhigh 12oclockhigh is offline
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First let me say thanks for modeling this plane, you do nice jobs on all your planes.

One thing that pops for me is that the fabric covered wings are too perfect. They need the droop between ribs.
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  #72  
Old 07-28-2017, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 12oclockhigh View Post
First let me say thanks for modeling this plane, you do nice jobs on all your planes.

One thing that pops for me is that the fabric covered wings are too perfect. They need the droop between ribs.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing and I may look into a method abaser shared with me for doing that.. but that's a maybe so don't count on it. From what I remember he created a separate poly between each rib and then pulled them down a little to simulate a droop. But that would just make an indented flat spot not a nice rounded area like the cloth would make. I think I tried it once and didn't like my result at the time. And that would definitely eat up some resources I might need other places too. But I'll keep it in mind. And a good artist would be able to do that in the CS too.

Last edited by technoid; 07-28-2017 at 10:35 AM.
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  #73  
Old 07-28-2017, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technoid View Post
I just finished adding the ailerons so I thought I'd drop by and post a render of them
Quote:
Originally Posted by technoid View Post
I woke up at 2am and couldn't get back to sleep so I started working on Jenny. So here it is 7:30 and no sleep but we have wings. I do still need to cut out the ailerons. Notice the smooth curves on the wing tips and pilot cutouts, lots of segments again. The current triangle count is 3,108. Here's a render for you it actually looks like a plane now. All the parts were created on top of the plan and are sized exactly to the plan, since I'm not really a Jenny person do these pictures look right?
In WWI airplanes the wing had aoa so that the leading edge of the arch of the airfoil scooped air with the trailing edge. In short put a couple degrees of incidence into both wings see the linked image https://goo.gl/images/PuDcXC
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  #74  
Old 07-28-2017, 12:18 PM
Moto-Guzzi Moto-Guzzi is offline
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That’s My Girl, recognize her coming or going!

I like the way you have the lower wings attached to the fuse…the “other” jenny has the fuse sitting ON the lower wing, which is not correct…when doing a typical two-tone pint job (fuse different color than the wings) I had to paint a portion of the lower wing bottoms to blend with the fuse to get the right look….tedious and sloppy…
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  #75  
Old 07-28-2017, 12:26 PM
Moto-Guzzi Moto-Guzzi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12oclockhigh View Post
First let me say thanks for modeling this plane, you do nice jobs on all your planes.

One thing that pops for me is that the fabric covered wings are too perfect. They need the droop between ribs.
Getting the shading right to create believable looking “ribs” is tricky, Im still not 100% happy with my technique…..depending on the angle to the sun, they wash out (all my screen shots of the "other" Jenny are from the “best angle”)

My rudimentary understanding of Texture Maps is they create an artificial 3-D perception based on contrasting patterns in the paint job (like a brick and mortar walkway, or shaded door panels), without requiring any actual 3-D data underneath (expensive amount of data)…but I think the surface needs to be fairly “reflective” or glossy so it has some range (between gloss and dull) to manipulate for the effect to show as the object rotates....Never made one myself, I just add a mask layer to cut down the gloss but I still get detail wash-out particularly on the top wing...

I like the way the Wing Ribs are depicted on the Bristol F2B, they don’t seem to wash out and I don’t think it has a texture map…..been trying to mimic how he achieved that look, but havent perfected it yet.
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