Creating 3-D Airports in RF 7

Fun2av8RC

Member
While preparing to create a new airport - I zoomed out 50 Miles (?) and noticed that when you zoom out far enough you begin to see what appears to be towns, rivers, industrial areas, etc. I found one spot just north east of the CMB Flying Field that looks like an industrial complex complete with a small town and railroad tracks. When I zoom in to investigate - the topography loses its definition and becomes flat.

They are one-dimensional as there this no depth to them. Trees are two-dimensional and appear intermixed with the one dimensional topography.

I have a couple of questions.

1) Just where in the world is this slice of geography that makes up the Real Flight World?

2) Is it possible to turn the one-dimensional areas into two-dimensions?

3) When scrolling for locations for a new airport - I sometimes loose my orientation. Is there anyway to get latitude/longitude references? They don't have to be real. Just some way to relocate a spot or location. I know you can drop a pilot / plane spawn and get back to that spot. I'm just wondering if there is a way to find a location using coordinates of some kind.
 

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Maj. Numbskully

Well-known member
It is the Sierra Nevada region of Spain on the Mediterranean side
RF covers a 100 x100 mile (10,000 square mile) part of it.
I believe actual north has been rotated to the east in RFs depiction
 

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opjose

Well-known member
2) Is it possible to turn the one-dimensional areas into two-dimensions?

3) When scrolling for locations for a new airport - I sometimes loose my orientation. Is there anyway to get latitude/longitude references? They don't have to be real. Just some way to relocate a spot or location. I know you can drop a pilot / plane spawn and get back to that spot. I'm just wondering if there is a way to find a location using coordinates of some kind.
The Maj already answered question one.

Re: Two dimensions

The terrain is made up of a satellite photo overlaid on topographic 3D terrain data.

No additional 3D info goes into the GIS surveys used to create this stuff, so you could only add 3D objects to an airport to simulate a town being there.

Realflight's engine doesn't lend itself to high density 3D objects in an airport.
If you want to see something like this done very well check out AF 5.7, though in that sim you are limited to only two dense 3D areas... still that part of the sim is pretty neat and I'd love to see Realflight with that degree of density.


Re: Scrolling

If you drop anything onto the terrain, the editor displays the absolute co-ordinates for that object.

You can manually position objects by using absolute co-ordinates, making it possible to go back to a specific location every time you begin a new airport, even if the airport does not already have a spawn point.
 

Fun2av8RC

Member
Maj. Numbskully and opjose!

Thanks for the information - it really helps to understand how RF works when trying to build airports.

BTW, have you loaded Skydrome AP? This dude really is thinking outside the box. It is well done and a lot of fun to fly in.

Quick Question: How does one get night time? I loaded Flight School (Night) and looked at the settings. There are two that deal with the Sun Azmiuth and angle. In the Flight School, they are set to -90 and 0. I did the same with one of my APs and the best I can get is twilight. What am I missing?

Jim
 

Flare

New member
By the way, shift+pg up or shift+pg dn when not in the editor can change the sun inclination temporarily.
 

Fun2av8RC

Member
Hey Major, what you said makes sense if I were working with a photo realistic airport. But the airport I am trying to modify is a 3-D airport just like Flight School (Night). If I change the Sun Inclination from -90 to +90 and the Sun Azimuth from 0 to 350 in the Flight School (Nite) AP, I get a nice sunny day. And when I change it back -90 & 0 - I get midnight.

Having clarified that....got any suggestions?

Flare, I will tried the shift+pg up or shift+pg dn trick - it didn't work. Thanks for suggestion.

Correction: It does Work! See next post!!!!
 
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Fun2av8RC

Member
How To Setup Night Flying

It turns out that this is pretty easy to do.

Thanks to the hint from Flare - it is very easy to turn day into night gradually. The Shift PgUp/Pg Down short cut control’s the inclination of the sun in Sierra Nevada (3-D) airports. The base line for the sun inclination angle in the 3-D airports ranges from 40 degrees (mid-morning) through 90 degrees (high Noon). The Shift PgUp/Pg Down short cut changes the sun inclination plus or minus from the baseline.

Shift Page Up: Increases the angle - the sun gets higher in the sky - more daylight
Shift Page Down: Decrease the angle - the sun gets lower in the sky - less daylight

+10 degrees = Sunset
+ 0 degrees = Twilight
- 20 degrees = Stars begin to appear in the night sky
- 30 to -90 degrees = It gets darker and darker
- 7 degrees = Sunrise
- 9 degrees = The moon comes out (depends on the Sun Azimuth Setting – see below)

What you see in the night sky is controlled by several factors.

Sun Azimuth (degrees)
This is a range from 0 to 360 degrees. At approximately 40 degrees, the moon comes into view.

Panoramic Image:
This dropdown box has a list of many different ‘skies’ your 3-D airport can have. Some of won’t impact your night time sky. The ones that seem to have the most impact are those that begin with ‘Sky’. When you choose one of these sky conditions – it does impact how dark your night time sky will be. The best results are obtained if you choose ‘ <None>

The lights come on when the Sun Inclination is at +9 degrees. Many of the objects you see in the daytime have lights at night. Buildings, towers, street lights, billboards, cars & trucks, many other objects have lights or they light-up. The best example of this is Flight School (Night). The airfield comes to life with illuminated objects. Props and rotors on airplanes and helis have embedded LEDs that light up. Some of the KnifeEdge airplanes are fully illuminated with strings of LEDs such as the AJ Slick (51 inch) and the BLT Park Flyer in RF7. This is also true of many of the airplanes and helis in previous versions.

Although the Shift PgUp/Pg Down short cut will not won't with Archipelago, PhotoFields , or FlatLands airports, you can still make these fields varying degrees of night by editing the sun inclination using the airport editor.

In CMB Flying Field Ver 3c (will be uploaded soon) are a number of objects that are illuminated. The aircraft carrier flight deck at the Lake port is illuminated. To take-off from the carrier deck, go to the View Menu > Camera Position and choose ‘Pilot (AP) on Carrier Deck’.
 
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Fun2av8RC

Member
Floating Runway

When I join two floating runway sections together to make a longer runway, where the first section ends is where the airplane hits an invisible wall and implodes. Collidable has to be set to YES. If you set it to NO, then when you land on the runway, you fall right through it.

How do I make this work?
 
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abaser

Well-known member
This has always been an issue. What exactly are you looking for? Any specific size, texture? I'll make you one tonight if you can give me some specifics. If you've got a specific texture in mind, try and find some good reference pics and post them here.
 

Fun2av8RC

Member
Runway Textures

In the Properties window for the Projected Scenery Object called Dirt Runway, there is a field called '*Material'. Click on the default value (in this case, Dirt) and a list of choices pop up.

If I pick any value other than dirt, such as Concrete and then save / exit to the Simulator, the runway is still dirt.

How do I get change the Material for a runway from its default value to something else?
 

abaser

Well-known member
I'm no AP guy, but I'm going to venture a guess that what you are changing is only how RF sees the runway, not how you see it. If you want to change that, you'd somehow have to change the texture on the map. Like I said though, I'm a plane modifier/builder. I really don't know how the AP objects are modified, but I'd almost bet they're the same.
 

Maj. Numbskully

Well-known member
this is how I understand it ......
A dirt runway will always look like dirt !......try this ...go into chase view ...with each material and taxi over it at the same /speed location ....and you'll notice a difference

Its just like adding a canard to an EA in the aircraft editor
you don't see it...... but it flys as if it does indeed have a canard

In APs you don't see the material , but rather you "feel" it
as the different materials impart the bumpiness and rolling resistance or lack thereof to the ground ...smooth concrete to bumpy dirt road

In Aps the way the ground looks is set with the near and far texture radius options

In APs the way the Runway's look.... it set by the choice of runway itself .........

match both the material and texture for a more real look AND real feel that match
use a concrete runway and make sure the material is set to concrete
use a dirt runway make sure its set to dirt ..............they should be set to the proper material for the type of runway it is by default

Yes .....the big gear ripping speed bumps where to runways (and the gym floors and roofs ) meet have been a problem for a long time
even if you set both runways 'Z" parameter digitally .......the speed bump is still there ..I have got around it by making sure the bump is on the upwind side of the runway so the plane makes a small drop going over it on take off and landing
rather than hitting it and nosing over or worse in the opposite direction

night sky ? want one? .....DL and import my "Moons of Numdor P.I. ....once installed when you go into AP editor the night sky (or any photofield image) will be available for use in any AP ....even 3D ones ..AS long as you stay in ground view it looks awesome

click on the APs name at the top of the drop down and you'll see a "panoramic image" option that's set to none by default

Moons of Numbdor: http://www.knifeedge.com/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=12211
 
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Flare

New member
If you want any custom runways Fun2av8RC, I'll make them for you too. I found a way to also make 'ground' patterns in GIMP.
 

Fun2av8RC

Member
Custom Runways - Thank You!

Hi Abase and Flare! Thanks for the offer. Here's a quickly analysis and a summary of what I would like to have.

I am hoping to get one 'runway'.

I need is a grass strip. In RF, there are a number of grass strip / grass strip components. None of them really work well - but each has desirable characteristic.

Load the attached .AP and .AV files in RF. The .AP is a random hillside that tests a runway's ability to conform to the ground contours. Taxi the airplane over the different runway types to see how the landing gear interacts with the runway surface.

The .AV is the Dornier with special cameras loaded just for the purpose of testing runways.

F2 = Nose
F3 = Chase
F4 = Undercarriage
F5 = Left Wing looking at the Fuse (Side View)

Here are the runways (names are the same as used in RF Object Listings) in the test

Grass Strip (this is usually the ground cover for an Airport aerodrome).
- Conforms to Ground: Yes
- Wheels Sink into runway: Yes
- Markings = No
- Square Corners = No
- Grass Texture = OK
- Collidable Issues = No

Soccer Field
- Conforms to Ground: Yes
- Wheels Sink into runway: Yes
- Markings = Yes
- Square Corners = Yes
- Grass Texture = Very Nice - got that outdoor carpet feel
- To create a runway - takes lot of chunks lined up.
- Collidable Issues = No

Air Race Runway
- Conforms to Ground: Yes
- Wheels Sink into runway: Yes
- Markings = Yes
- Square Corners = No
- Grass Texture = Very Nice - got that outdoor carpet feel
- Collidable Issues = No

Grass Runway
- Conforms to Ground: No
- Wheels Sink into runway: No
- Markings = Yes
- Square Corners = Yes
- Grass Texture = On a flat surface - its the best
- Collidable Issues = Yes.
If set to NO = airplane taxis though it
If set to YES = airplane crashes into it

Dirt Runway
- Conforms to Ground: Yes
- Wheels Sink into runway: NO!
- Markings = No
- Square Corners = No
- Grass Texture = Very Nice - got that outdoor carpet feel
- Collidable Issues = No

Ideal Grass Runway
- The DIRT RUNWAY
- Look like either the Soccer Field or the Grass Runway
- Has square corners
- Width and length can be set indepent of each other
Nice - but not necessary.


Let me know if you are interested in creating a grass runway object with square corners - they are a big deal in this project


Many Thanks,
Jim
 

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Fun2av8RC

Member
Hey Major Numbskully,
Thanks for the very detailed reply. This kind of info really helps me out. I did what you suggested - see Post #15 in this thread. You are right - each runway object has it's own texture and feel. Your post contains a lot of info I need to learn/understand. Thats Great!!!

With respect to the contents of #15 and your data, I need to experiment with the properties such as Texture 1 & 2, Texture Radus, folage exclusion, follage seed, bloom, Terrain quality, and material to see how they interact. The runways in Post #15 above are going to get quite a workout.

Quick Quesiton: Are the properties 'render' or 'depth buffer' specific to photorealist APs? I do believe that the 'panoramic' settings are just for photorealistic stuff.

I get your point on the canard wing. Even though its not visible - the EA flies as if it were. I also get that if the runway of choice is the Dirt Runway, then set the material type to Dirt. Makes great sense.

I think the upwind suggestion on the floating runway may have to be the solution for know until KE or someone figure out how to fix that.
I downloaded the "Moons of Numdor" and will explore the behind the scenes stuff later tonight.

Thanks!
Jim
 

Fun2av8RC

Member
What is the largest file in MB that RF can process? The upload restriction is 50mb. Can RF AP Editor really handle and process a 50mb file?
 

bosshawg

Member
Projected Scenery Objects

Added 100ftSq,2by100ft & 4by100ft Projected Scenery Objects mapped with an
~ALPHA material.TGA's are Found in your
C:\Documents and Settings\****\My Documents\RealFlight G4\Scenery\AirportObjects Folder.
Modify to suit your needs!.
Dont Think U want a Static Scenery Object for what U R doing it would need 2 B Poly Rich for conform to ground 2 work adequately.:)
 

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Helihemi

Member
If you want any custom runways Fun2av8RC, I'll make them for you too. I found a way to also make 'ground' patterns in GIMP.
I made a tarmac square once but discarded it because I could not import into RF. Something similar to the concrete square or dirt square as shown. Can something like these tarmac examples be made?
 

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