Question about channel mapping.

AngryPepper

New member
Hey all, I was wondering, if I want to assign a switch for dual rates, does that count as using a channel? For instance, on a 6 channel radio, if I assigned a switch to dual rates does that mean I only have one more channel to assign to flaps, or gear, etc.
 

caltain

New member
Switches and knobs are not equal to channels, and channels do not equal servos. Please forgive me if all of this is already clear in your mind. I found my way through the darkness to that fact and was suitably amazed.

The number of channels required to operate either a real RC craft or a simulated one comes down to the number of different control types you would need to control with a servo or otherwise want to tell the vehicle to change AT THE SAME TIME. Some controls, like the basic 4 Elevator, Aileron, Rudder, and Throttle of a plane require constant adjustment and therefore almost always get a channel each and a stick axis each, but even though you will need at least 2 servos for the ailerons, you only need one channel and one stick axis to command the Ailerons to roll right or left, fast or slowly. That could be controlled with a basic 4 channel radio with no other switches, knobs, dials, etc. If you want to separate the control of flaps and ailerons, then you need 4 + 1 switch and channel for the flaps. If you also want retractable gear, then that is another switch to flick on your radio and another channel to tell the plane to raise the gear, and 2, 3, 4, or more servos to actually do the work.

Then we come to things like dual rates and throttle hold. Those are changes to the information sent on a channel, rather than an additional type of information. For those features, you use a switch on the radio to control to cause your radio to send info in a different way. Dual rates, in the real world happen in your radio. Low rate tells the radio to set the rudder to 20º with the stick all the way over and high rates makes the radio set the rudder to 40º with the stick hard over. Throttle hold is exactly that. It tells the radio to keep telling the vehicle that you want 80% throttle, even though you could be flapping the stick all over the place! For helis and other vehicles with variable pitch propellers, that same toggle switch will tell the radio to start using the stick axis that was controlling the throttle to start controlling the pitch of the blades. While the throttle hold does not require an extra channel, controlling the pitch of the blades, Collective for helis, DOES need an additional channel and at least 1 more servo.

Finally, we come to RF and the InterLink DX controller. The DX is a controller, rather than a radio. All it does is send the physical positions of each stick, switch, knob, button, or roller, with the added ability to modify the stick position sent with the digital trim "internally" in the DX. All of the cool things that radios can now do, like dual rates and throttle hold and flap mixing, and machine guns, and dropping bombs, and turning the head of the little pilot in the cockpit, etc. all get modeled by RF if you are using the DX. If you are using your radio, then you have to figure out the number of channels and go from there. If you use your radio and a dongle, you have a maximum of either 8 channels or the number of channels your radio has, whichever is less. If you use your radio through the trainer jack of the DX, you may be able to access as many as 15, if your radio has that many and is compatible with the trainer port.

As a technical aside, the DX is actually operating like a 19 - 23 channel radio, depending if the trim is really done in the DX or is sent to the sim and modeled there. This is because of the 15 obvious channels plus the Reset and Cancel buttons and the Select Roller and Select Press. Ultimately, all of that is sent as digital data to the sim via the 4 wires of the USB cable. Since radios went digital and started using embedded processors, the number of channels is effectively only limited by the bandwidth of the transmission frequency, but things start to get pretty silly when you get above about 8, and I personally have never actually NEEDED more than 7, but I still fly a 9 channel radio, mind you. I would love a 20 channel radio for the switches and cool factor alone, but I can't imagine actually ever building a plane, heli, drone, boat, or ground vehicle that needs 20 separate and unrelated simultaneous functions, but someone will make one eventually and someone will want more. With my background, I would probably just build a custom receiver and code my own protocol using standard spread spectrum transmitter, but not all can or would!

Hope some of this helps someone somewhere sometime!
Cheers!
 

Dimi

New member
Thanks Caltain,
Very well explained. This is where I got stuck, If I need to add dual rates o say, ailerons how do you go about.
Can you do a step by step guide
 

PilotAt6

Well-known member
Well Caltain ... you covered the topic pretty thoroughly . It sure gets messy at times.
Another thing to consider is if your are doing mixes, expo, and dual rates in a radio, Un-Check the boxes in the RF controller setup that enables software to accomplish those task.
 

12oclockhigh

Well-known member
You have two methods available for setting dual rates:
1.) map a switch on your radio to the rates channel in the software.
2.) Set the rate at full setting using the keyboard and creating rates within your radio as you would for a RW aircraft. Then you could have rates for ailerons, elevator and rudder, or you could combine all three on one switch.
 

PilotAt6

Well-known member
12oclockhigh replied: " Set the rate at full setting using the keyboard "

Is setting the rates with keyboard a RF9 capability, or am I overlooking a keyboard command in RF8 ?
 

SDRemi

New member
I am using a WS 1000 Dongle and a DX-6 (6 Channel) Tx with RealFlight 9.

It appears the models and the WS 1000 use channel 7 – Smoke to control the gear and the DX-6 does not have a Channel 7 so the gear can not be controlled by a switch on the DX-6, is that correct? I would have to use the keyboard letter I to control the gear?

Also, on the DX-6, channel 5 can only be used with a selected switch to control Software Radio Dual Rate & Expo on the WS 1000 Dongle, is that correct? Or can channel 5 be re-assigned to control a different function on the Dongle?
 
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caltain

New member
I was working on a more comprehensive explanation, but I see your dilemma now and that effort has been OBE, so here's what we're gonna do. I'm gonna figure out the solution in the editor and then walk you through something I call "switch packing." The DX6 has plenty of switches to change all sorts of things in the radio, but I'd like to use this first opportunity to show you a "worst case" and then we can back up and see if we can get some more functionality by letting the radio do mixing and multiple rates for itself. Once you do this a few times, it will start to make sense and then you can really start screwing things up!! (It's OK! My dad has an awesome set of tools!)

What I need from you:
  1. What plane do you want to do this with first? (I'm ultimately going to throw it up on the Swap pages for you to download and look at, so that you will have a known good setup to refer to when you want to fiddle with a different plane in RF.)
  2. Set up your DX6:
    1. Make a new Acro model.
    2. Flight Mode 2
    3. Channel Assignment (Rx Port Assignments and Channel Input Config)
      1. Right Stick X Axis - Both Ailerons - Roll
      2. Right Stick Y Axis - Elevator - Pitch
      3. Left Stick Y Axis - Throttle - Throttle
      4. Left Stick X Axis - Rudder - Yaw
      5. Aux 1 - Switch C (or whichever 3 Way Switch you want to use for Dual Rates in RF)
      6. Aux 2 - Switch D (or any other unassigned 3 Way Switch you want to use for Gear Retracts in RF)
    4. All 6 channels use the full travel values of -100 to +100, so you shouldn't need to fiddle with the Servo Setup. If you copied a model rather than creating a new one, you may need to check. Set all 12 values on the Travel screen to 100.
    5. No Sub-Trim, no Reversed channels, no Dual Rates, no Exponential, no Differential, no Throttle Cut
    6. Standard 2 point 45º straight line Throttle Curve
    7. No Mixing
    8. Icon of your choice. Don't think this makes any difference.
    9. SAVE THE MODEL preferably as something like "Dumb Radio" or "RF Controller"
  3. Never even seen the dongle, but if it has settings, set it up so it pass the channels from input to output without mapping or modification. Channel 1 comes in and goes out as Channel 1, etc.
 

SDRemi

New member
Channel Assignment (Rx Port Assignments and Channel Input Config)
  1. Right Stick X Axis - Both Ailerons - Roll
  2. Right Stick Y Axis - Elevator - Pitch
  3. Left Stick Y Axis - Throttle - Throttle
  4. Left Stick X Axis - Rudder - Yaw
  5. Aux 1 - Switch C (or whichever 3 Way Switch you want to use for Dual Rates in RF)
  6. Aux 2 - Switch D (or any other unassigned 3 Way Switch you want to use for Gear Retracts in RF)
But the problem is the DX6 doesn't have an Aux 2 selection, only the Aux 1 selection and Channel 6 is already using Aux 1 for Flaps.

And channel 5 can't be used for the gear because the WS 100 Dongle only allows channel 5 to be used with a selected switch to control Software Radio Dual Rate & Expo.
 

caltain

New member
First, DON'T GET HUNG UP ON LABELS!!

The dirty little secret nobody tells about setting up a radio or a dongle or a model in RF is that at the most basic level, you are just causing a particular physical control on the radio to send a particular range of numbers along a particular path so that RF will get meaningful numbers and move the right bits of the plane when you move the physical control. The switches could all be named for US Presidents. The channels could be named after stars. The control surfaces of the plane could be named after cartoon characters, or colors, or numbers, or Greek letters, or anything else, and it would make no difference.

Honest! Trust me! Nobody is going to tell the plane on the screen with it's gear going up and down that the radio in your lap thinks you are telling the flaps to lower and raise and the dongle in the middle is imagining little puffs of smoke appearing and disappearing.

Now, let's get on the same page. Which exact model of DX6 are you using?

The reason I ask is that there are some differences, especially with firmware, that impact how you can set up the controls in the radio. That said, all of the radios made in the last decade or two permit the pilot to assign almost any stick axis, switch, button, slider, or knob to any channel. I will find the manual and walk you through the proper setup step by step if that's what we need to do.

I know beyond question that your radio & dongle will let you fly any plane in RF and control its throttle, elevators, ailerons, rudder, (TEAR) and at least two special functions like flaps, gear, smoke, canopy, etc. I'm about 98% sure that your setup will permit you to also have dual rates, elevons, flaperons, and spoilerons in addition to TEAR and two or more special functions.
 

12oclockhigh

Well-known member
12oclockhigh replied: " Set the rate at full setting using the keyboard "

Is setting the rates with keyboard a RF9 capability, or am I overlooking a keyboard command in RF8 ?
Available in RF7, RF8, and RF9 I believe. If all else fails you can use the keyboard commands for the channels. The keys are the Y U I and O. They toggle channels 5-8. This is in the manual. You are saying you want to set rates on your radio, so you need to be using the software's full rate and then within your radio set lesser rates on one or more rate switches. The keyboard can toggle the lo and hi rates in the software.
 

PilotAt6

Well-known member
12oclockhigh replies: "The keyboard can toggle the lo and hi rates in the software."

Thanks for the reply. Now I understand what you were implying. I took it as you could input the Rate % from a keyboard command rather than toggle between low and high rate.
I can say, I was not aware of the YUIO keys until you mentioned it awhile back. I this case of only having 6 channels, that sure helps the setup.

In RF8, to setup a channel, all I needed to do (on a joystick controller) was click on the channel I wanted to assign, then press or move the controller function to assign it to that switch or lever. That still the way to setup a controller (Radio) profile. If so, all that's needed to know is that "Smoke" is really "Retract/Smoke/Throttle Hold" or whatever it was setup for. In RF8 Flaps is listed as flaps.

If your setting up a DX-6, you would consult the manual to get your mixes, expo, dual rates etc. established. Then disable RF software mixes in RF's controller setup screen. That's a good way to learn the Radio's functions.
Seems to me that using the keyboard YUIO keys and a six channel radio, you would have 10 channel capability.
 
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12oclockhigh

Well-known member
I would not disable RF Software mixes unless you are using mixes within the radio and even then you most likely would not need it. The only time I think you want to disable RF software mixes is when you are setting up a collective pitch helicopter and want to do it manually. The other radio mixes should appear in the Throttle, Aileron, Rudder, and Elevator channels so just use the radio output values.
 

caltain

New member
Sorry for the delay. I missed the notification.

Okay, the SPMR6750 Mode 2 Gen 3 is the mode 2/4 transmitter only variant of the SPM6700. You can download the manual as a PDF here. The dongle manual is here.

Your last longer post said two things that do confuse me, though, and I think I may have just figured out where you and I are missing each other.

In that post you said channel 6 is already assigned to flaps and channel 5 is locked by the dongle to dual rates/exponents. Where are you getting those facts from? Are you saying that you are flying a plane in RF and the physical radio switch you use for channel 5 produces dual rates on the plane in RF and the physical radio switch you use for channel 6 controls the flaps on the plane in RF?

It's important for me to understand where you confirmed those two channels, because as far as I can tell, they can be set in 3 places in your radio, cannot be set or changed in your dongle, and can be set in at least 3 or 4 places in RF.

I'm at my computer for the rest of the evening, so feel free to PM me if I don't respond quick enough for you.
 

PilotAt6

Well-known member
I would not disable RF Software mixes unless you are using mixes within the radio and even then you most likely would not need it. The only time I think you want to disable RF software mixes is when you are setting up a collective pitch helicopter and want to do it manually. The other radio mixes should appear in the Throttle, Aileron, Rudder, and Elevator channels so just use the radio output values.
I agree ... it may also depend on what is mixed in the radio vs the RF editor. If both have an elevon mix at different percentages, there may be conflict. I would need to cross that bridge before knowing for sure. There are so many ways to setup radio's these days, you really need to study the manuals and experiment a little. I don't envision using an actual radio as a controller, so I may never know. But I will say that many of my variants have 30+ modifiers and mixes, so they may require just a straight channel to channel setup and let the software handle all ... however that is not the norm ... also you can have many radio profiles stored for different scenarios.

The question is, how do we help this fellow understand the setup of his 6 channel radio/dongle system for basic usage. I still believe he could use the keyboard functions for some inputs and let the RF controller "setup page" do the channels 1 to 4 and 6 and 7. Then if he wants dual rates, hit the keyboard command "Y". Easy fix until he learns more about his radio/dongle and the RF interface.

caltain seems willing to guide him through the rough spots.
 

caltain

New member
I think that the option to use the keyboard shortcuts to toggle the unique channels and the radio for maneuvering (with a default plane model with normal wing and tail) is clear enough at this point. Also, it seems clear that it is possible to at least fly with the setup as it is and this is a matter of convenience, features, and preferences rather than being unable to use RF at all.

I am willing to do the deep digging to figure out the best way to use the radio, dongle, and RF settings and models to make our new member happy and comfortable with this particular setup. It just helps me be better able to help others with similar issues in the future, and if sdremi isn’t getting the right help at the right pace, he needs only mention the shortfall I will happily summon additional input from you nice folks with more experience of RF and supporting its users.
 

12oclockhigh

Well-known member
Quite frankly, I think you are wasting your time trying to teach a newbie to make advanced setups for RF. 6 channels so use them for throttle, ailerons, rudder, elevator, gear, and flaps. Use keyboard for rates. Don’t setup anything in radio.

you can see why we prefer the interlink. I think that “bring your own radio” is a marketing gimmick. All you need is a dumb box. Flying is mostly sticks anyway. You cannot program yourself a pilots license.
 

SDRemi

New member
In that post you said channel 6 is already assigned to flaps and channel 5 is locked by the dongle to dual rates/exponents. Where are you getting those facts from? Are you saying that you are flying a plane in RF and the physical radio switch you use for channel 5 produces dual rates on the plane in RF and the physical radio switch you use for channel 6 controls the flaps on the plane in RF?

It's important for me to understand where you confirmed those two channels, because as far as I can tell, they can be set in 3 places in your radio, cannot be set or changed in your dongle, and can be set in at least 3 or 4 places in RF.
Hi Finally got back on my computer.
Yep, I have channel 6 (Aux 1) Switch A assigned with the WS1000 for Flaps and that works fine.
I have unchecked the Software selection for DR / Expo in the WS1000 and now set the DR / Expo in the DX6 and that works fine also.

The one thing I would like to change is I am now using with the WS1000, Channel 7 and Keyboard I for the Gear and would like to change that to a switch on the DX6.
I am not using any thing on the DX6's channel 5 (Gear) but I can not find anyway to pair that or have the WS1000 see that input. It seems to only allow the DX6's channel 5 to be used with a selected switch to control Software Radio Dual Rate & Expo.
 
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