Some Expert Advice, InterLink DX v. DX8-G2.

SPQR33

Member
Folks: I have an X1.2m Night Timber; I have a DX8-G2 radio, and full R-F 9.5.031 Pkg. Issue: The supplied InterLink DX has similar switch functions as I had programmed into my DX8-G2 radio, but with a couple exceptions. Both use Sw- “D” for flaps; both use Sw- “A” for prop reversing. InterLink DX uses Sw- “B” for SAFE / AS3X, while I use DX8-G2 Sw- “H”, and InterLink uses Sw- “B” for Mixing Ailerons and Flaps for ACRO. I’m currently practice flying my Timber with InterLink DX Sw- “B” in pos 2- or 3- to Disable Mixing. But I would like to have that option with my DX8-G2 radio for future use. As you can see from the pics, the directions from both the plane’s and the DX8-G2 manuals are rather sparse in detail. I think I have to assign a Channel, but I think I used all 8- of them. Then go to System, Digital Switch to assign Sw-“C”. Then Function, pick Mixing: P-Mix 3. Does anyone have a better understanding of the procedure that I can use? Details please. Thanks.
ACRO Mixing-1.jpgACRO Mixing-2.jpg
 

marcushh777

Well-known member
I also own the Timber(s) and the best advice I can give you is to use your Timber manual to setup your DX8G2 based on their recommendations.

That said, you need to understand the software controller editor, vs the InterlinkDX controller, vs the DX8G2 w/ WS2000 dongle.

The software controller editor expects a Windows usb gamepad; if you have not figured it out yet, the InterlinkDX controller is a Windows usb gamepad in a fancy package... nothing more. If you want to you can use your DX8G2 to control the Rf9.5.031 simulator; but, you'll need to purchase the Spektrum WS2000 dongle to interface your radio... the WS2000 dongle looks to the simulator as a usb Windows gamepad, and looks to the DX8G2 as a receiver.

The best of both worlds for flying the 'real' Timber vs the sim Timber, is to (1) get a WS2000 dongle, (2) setup the Timber on your DX8G2 according to the manual directions, (3) create a Timber Sim Plane for your DX8G2 that will match a radio profile for your sim (controller editor profile) and call it Timber Sim Plane.

That way you can use your real radio to control the Timber regardless 'real' or sim. It is also possible to create a generic profile (radio profile on sim, plane model on DX8G2) that can be used to control any of the E-Flite or Hangar 9 planes on the sim with either your 'real' radio or with the same functions on the InterlinkDX controller.

The real issue that gets in the way is that radio | channels mean something on the Spektrum radios (as one set of things) and meaning something quite a bit different on the simulator (radio profile, gamepad controller) as another set of things. Also, the nomenclature for the channels on the gamepad controller are different than the nomenclature for the channels on your radio; this is just something you're going to have to get used to and understand, because its been this way for a long long time and Rf | HH don't seem interested in changing it.

Please read this related article (mine) that will help with WS2000; I recommend both the article and the device!




marcus
 
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SPQR33

Member
I also own the Timber(s) and the best advice I can give you is to use your Timber manual to setup your DX8G2 based on their recommendations.

That said, you need to understand the software controller editor, vs the InterlinkDX controller, vs the DX8G2 w/ WS2000 dongle.

The software controller editor expects a Windows usb gamepad; if you have not figured it out yet, the InterlinkDX controller is a Windows usb gamepad in a fancy package... nothing more. If you want to you can use your DX8G2 to control the Rf9.5.031 simulator; but, you'll need to purchase the Spektrum WS2000 dongle to interface your radio... the WS2000 dongle looks to the simulator as a usb Windows gamepad, and looks to the DX8G2 as a receiver.

The best of both worlds for flying the 'real' Timber vs the sim Timber, is to (1) get a WS2000 dongle, (2) setup the Timber on your DX8G2 according to the manual directions, (3) create a Timber Sim Plane for your DX8G2 that will match a radio profile for your sim (controller editor profile) and call it Timber Sim Plane.

That way you can use your real radio to control the Timber regardless 'real' or sim. It is also possible to create a generic profile (radio profile on sim, plane model on DX8G2) that can be used to control any of the E-Flite or Hangar 9 planes on the sim with either your 'real' radio or with the same functions on the InterlinkDX controller.

The real issue that gets in the way is that radio | channels mean something on the Spektrum radios (as one set of things) and meaning something quite a bit different on the simulator (radio profile, gamepad controller) as another set of things. Also, the nomenclature for the channels on the gamepad controller are different than the nomenclature for the channels on your radio; this is just something you're going to have to get used to and understand, because its been this way for a long long time and Rf | HH don't seem interested in changing it.

Please read this related article (mine) that will help with WS2000; I recommend both the article and the device!




marcus
OK, thanks. I figured the IL-DX was a gamepad, as it shows in the Calibration Screen. It even recognizes my VooDoo X-treme combat flight sim joystick. But for the AI-FL Mixing part, my Timber is properly mechanically and electronically set up per both the H-H and DX8 manuals. I have the “buddy-box” cable (but no Dongle as yet), and I now use my DX8G2 with this sim for better “feel” (and it works OK with many other “stock” aircraft). Most switch features work like the InterLink DX does, except for the SAFE/AS3X (I use “H”, they use “B”), and the problematic FL / AI mixing (“C”) switches. I followed exactly the H-H Timber’s and the DX8 instructions, but there seems to be some details, or steps, or settings missing; perhaps even misprints? I tried the recommended Wing type, and other wing combinations of AI and FL, but when I set-up the P-Mix 3 settings per both books, when I move the ailerons, Both flaps will either move Full Up, or Full Down in response to the right or left ailerons. And I do mean Full Up or Full Down, cancelling out one or the other ailerons. However, the flaps work normally with the “D” switch and neutral ailerons. I noticed that the DX8G2’s Mixing screen doesn’t match the DX8 manual; something about 3D Aero planes. See the attached pics. So I reversed all settings, and all is back to normal operation. While I don’t plan on any crazy Aero maneuvers any time soon, I would still like the option of having full-span ailerons to make emergency quick tight turns, or faster responses in wind gusts. Thanks for the articles, and sim plane creation. Good advice.

PS: Your suggestion to practice fly with incrementally difficult wind conditions was right on, as was suggesting Evergreen Airport. Over time, I’m now up to 5- Mph, +45* and-45* crosswinds, and 25% turbulence. After making 10- successful takeoffs, touch & goes, and successful landings in a row, I move the settings up a notch.

20210131_101844.jpg20210131_101741.jpg
 

marcushh777

Well-known member
I can give you a couple more suggestions that may be helpful, not in any particular order.

The flaps in the sim work differently than the flaps in the DX8G2. On the DX8G2 you actually have a flaps setup to go through; how many servos, three position switch, etc. On the InterlinkDX (gamepad) and the sim the flaps are preconfigued always on sim channel (6). Its important that you use a three position switch (D) for your flaps. You can pick a different switch, but it needs to be three positions.

The mode channel on the sim (gamepad) is preconfigured as channel (8). This is typically put on Switch (B) on the InterlinkDX and I also use Switch (B) on my DX8G2 to be consistent. Switch (H) is not the best choice here for two reasons: (1) switch H is only two position, and mode requires three, and (2) switch H is usually used as a standard for throttle cut (airplanes) or throttle hold (helicopters).

Having said that, you of course are free to do anything you want to, and as in all aspects of engineering, everything presents tradeoffs. One more point.

Yes, I have found misprints in the manual(s) from E-Flite... its rare, but typos happen. Check with HH if you suspect. On the DX8G2 the selection of 'wing' is absolutely critical for premixes in the receiver. Most of the time you will want standard wing, center control (even though there are physically two servos). NOW THEN, if you want to use your flaps and ailerons together as flaperons (full length of the trailing edge) usually this requires either selecting a different 'wing' in the DX8G2, and|or modifying the cabling (splitter) for the wiring out to the servos from the receiver. For your flaperons to be functioning the way you describe, something is really wrong in one or both places ('wing' on DX8G2, wiring on the plane). NOTICE I'm not claiming to know which... what I can tell you is that I ran into similar issues when configuring my CarbonZ Cub SS for flaperons. I opted to go with scale flight characteristics and standard wing. Again, HH should be able to resolve some of these issues with your specific model.

marcus
 
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SPQR33

Member
I can give you a couple more suggestions that may be helpful, not in any particular order.

The flaps in the sim work differently than the flaps in the DX8G2. On the DX8G2 you actually have a flaps setup to go through; how many servos, three position switch, etc. On the InterlinkDX (gamepad) and the sim the flaps are preconfigued always on sim channel (6). Its important that you use a three position switch (D) for your flaps. You can pick a different switch, but it needs to be three positions.

The mode channel on the sim (gamepad) is preconfigured as channel (8). This is typically put on Switch (B) on the InterlinkDX and I also use Switch (B) on my DX8G2 to be consistent. Switch (H) is not the best choice here for two reasons: (1) switch H is only two position, and mode requires three, and (2) switch H is usually used as a standard for throttle cut (airplanes) or throttle hold (helicopters).

Having said that, you of course are free to do anything you want to, and as in all aspects of engineering, everything presents tradeoffs. One more point.

Yes, I have found misprints in the manual(s) from E-Flite... its rare, but typos happen. Check with HH if you suspect. On the DX8G2 the selection of 'wing' is absolutely critical for premixes in the receiver. Most of the time you will want standard wing, center control (even though there are physically two servos). NOW THEN, if you want to use your flaps and ailerons together as flaperons (full length of the trailing edge) usually this requires either selecting a different 'wing' in the DX8G2, and|or modifying the cabling (splitter) for the wiring out to the servos from the receiver. For your flaperons to be functioning the way you describe, something is really wrong in one or both places ('wing' on DX8G2, wiring on the plane). NOTICE I'm not claiming to know which... what I can tell you is that I ran into similar issues when configuring my CarbonZ Cub SS for flaperons. I opted to go with scale flight characteristics and standard wing. Again, HH should be able to resolve some of these issues with you specific model.

marcus
Yikes !! So, there seems to be missing, incomplete, inaccurate, confusing, unreliable, or even misrepresented information in both the DX8-G2 and the H-H E-f Night Timber X1.2m manuals. Go figure. Hmmm, I have it all right now set up as per their both manuals; Sw- “D”, 3- pos for flaps; Sw- “A”, 2- pos for prop reversing; Sw- “H”, 2- pos for SAFE/AS3X select. Yep, the IL-DX uses Sw- “B” for SAFE/AS3X select v. Sw- “H”. But that is the set-up directions for this plane with a DX8-G2. All is as per pages 10- (for Sw-“H” setup, which took 6- days of techie chatter to perform), and page 19- for the full style / type set-up of this Night Timber’s 2- position mixed flaps / elevators. As to critical wing selection, I tried using every one listed, with the same flap’s movement result. For practice, this is not going to be an issue for me at this time. I can adjust to needs in the field. OK, since I can “fly” this sim with the IL-DX and disable the AI-FL mixing, and when I fly the real plane hopefully someday soon, my DX8 will give the same performance. Well, it seems logical that I keep practicing with the plane as I can actually fly it, at least for the time being. Sorry to have bothered you about this obviously E-f / H-H combined confusion issue. However, this Forum is probably the best place to get real and accurate information when issues arise. As I’m sure that you are aware, the techie folks at H-H have only one solution when handling your problem requests. Without advising you beforehand that they will be doing this; they delete, remove, invalidate your radio’s registration, same with the plane’s registration, and then tell you to do it all over again before they will try to help. Then, their help is days in coming; usually from at least 5- different folks who keep asking the same questions repeatedly. Annoyance isn’t help. It is a hindrance toward resolution.
 

marcushh777

Well-known member
As I’m sure that you are aware, the techie folks at H-H have only one solution when handling your problem requests.
As always, in every arena, there is an inherent conflict between marketing and engineering. Tech support usually bridges the two. There really are two issues, and you want to keep them apart if possible, especially when talking to tech support.
(1) RealFlight9
This is one kettle of fish. HH bought out KnifeEdge software. HH is interested in the marketing aspects, and they're stuck with the tech support; such as it is.
(2) HH E-Flite & Hangar 9 planes; as well Spektrum product line...
This is another kettle of fish. Again, HH is interested primarily in the marketing aspects of their business; the tech support aspects they are stuck with.

Distributed support is usually more effective; its closer to the products in the field, and those involved are less concerned with marketing, and more concerned with 'resolution' as you put it, and with the practical engineering aspects of the hobby. I try to be very patient with HH and Ke. RealFlight is in flux; is in transition between a software house, and a marketing house. In my view HH has a marketing interest in RealFlight, but they are NOT a software tech support house, nor are they a computer company. This is just something all of us will have to live with going forward.

marcus
 

Flapper

Active member
Not really a new situation - KE is the software development company that makes RealFlight. The software was originally published, sold and supported by Hobbico (Tower/Great Planes). Hence why there were/are many Hobbico/Great Planes aircraft in the product. Ditto with older "Futaba" like controllers. With the bankruptcy and sale of assets, publishing/sale/support was taken over by Horizon. And a push for Horizon aircraft and Spektrum-like controllers. This forum is as close as one ever gets (or ever got) to direct support from Knife Edge.
 

SPQR33

Member
As always, in every arena, there is an inherent conflict between marketing and engineering. Tech support usually bridges the two. There really are two issues, and you want to keep them apart if possible, especially when talking to tech support.
(1) RealFlight9
This is one kettle of fish. HH bought out KnifeEdge software. HH is interested in the marketing aspects, and they're stuck with the tech support; such as it is.
(2) HH E-Flite & Hangar 9 planes; as well Spektrum product line...
This is another kettle of fish. Again, HH is interested primarily in the marketing aspects of their business; the tech support aspects they are stuck with.

Distributed support is usually more effective; its closer to the products in the field, and those involved are less concerned with marketing, and more concerned with 'resolution' as you put it, and with the practical engineering aspects of the hobby. I try to be very patient with HH and Ke. RealFlight is in flux; is in transition between a software house, and a marketing house. In my view HH has a marketing interest in RealFlight, but they are NOT a software tech support house, nor are they a computer company. This is just something all of us will have to live with going forward.

marcus
I must agree with both you and Flapper in this regard. As a retired heavy industrial electro-mechanical applications engineer, as full time sales road warrior for 41- years, I have seen the abrupt changes within many industries from product perfection down to striped suits doing only marketing for profit. This is what killed my long ago employer, Westinghouse. As such, I'll deal with my needs to perfect my muscle memory flying my Timber with the R-F sim so, when my local / regional RC fields "eventually" open, I'll be well prepped for any and all flying conditions. As to getting my Timber to have full-span ailerons, using switch "C" as does the RF IL-DX, well, I've been hacking computer stuff since about 37 years, when Gates and Jobes were in short pants. And if I can't get it done, no matter, as I don't plan to do much Acro with this Timber anyway. Thanks again for your help.
 

SPQR33

Member
You are most welcome; best wishes for you.

PS edit: Sorry 'bout Westinghouse! My company ( IBM ) bit the dust too. :confused:

marcus
To marcushh7777: Sir, this is probably the best place to thank you for all of your patience, expert help, and recommendations for me these past several weeks, a newbie to both RC flying and to RF 9.5.031. I just finished a phone chat with the H-H / Spektrum tech folks, and it seems I overlooked page 18- of my Night Timber X1.2m’s manual Re: setting up AIL / FLP mixing using Switch: “C”. Odd that their page 19- didn’t specify that I had to do the re-wiring indicated on page 18- to get their line items 10-, 11-, and 12- to make AIL /FLP Mixing function. So, I did their Advanced BNF full rewiring as specified, and that tech walked me thru all of the proper DX8G2 settings, which I already had correct. My Night Timber X1.2m now has full use of 2- position flaps, 50- and 100-%, with joined 14- and 20-% elevators on Sw-D; I have prop reversing on Sw: A; I have SAFE / AS3X select on Sw: H; and I got my AIL / FLP mixing On/Off on Sw: C. All is exactly as I wanted. So, after doing my wiring work today, and since we’re due for some warmer weather, I installed the Du-Bro 9” snow skis kit conversion (and had to slightly ream my stock wheel hubs for a quick revert back to wheels), and I recently built and trial fitted the optional float pontoons kit, which went together very well. So, with my intent to actually fly this bird for real tomorrow, within 15- mins or so, I can convert her to wheels, snow skis, or float pontoons. My nearby state park has a large lake, a sandy swimming beach area, and probably still has lots of snow on the larger open areas. Whatever I encounter, I’m ready to make her fly. Now, as you suggested, I used Evergreen field for multiple scenario practice flights, and gradually increased difficulty to 10-Mph winds, 45* cross-wind, and to 35% turbulence. I’m comfortable with this environment, having several hours of takeoffs, touch & goes, and landings both with and against the winds in RF 9.5.031. Wish me luck on her maiden flight.
 

marcushh777

Well-known member
Go Fly Bro... :) (y)

PS ... I'm jealous; we still have 2ft of ice on the pond, and about 1.5 meters of snow banks left. :p

marcus
 

SPQR33

Member
Go Fly Bro... :) (y)

PS ... I'm jealous; we still have 2ft of ice on the pond, and about 1.5 meters of snow banks left. :p

marcus
Sir: OMG !! At age 70, I haven’t had this much fun in a very long time. And I owe it all to you and the fine developers of RF 9.5.031. Plus the techs at H-H and Spektrum. Without the hours of practice time with this sim, I’m positive I would have crashed my well prepped E-f Night Timber X1.2m, and it would have been catastrophic at that. It was your advice to use the Evergreen field, where most of the “views” options don’t work. So it taught me not to lose sight of my plane, and with your suggested incremental increases in atmospheric difficulty, I gained the muscle memory needed to make quick and accurate flight control’s corrections. When I said warmer weather was due today, that meant temps in the high 30’s F. And it was a bit windy and gusty. While I kept her on SAFE mode, she performed Exactly like the sim did in those conditions. And this was with an oversized heavier 14.8V 3200mAh 50C battery, which fits nicely in the Timber’s battery well. I did take the snow skis and the float pontoons; but the lake was still iced-over and crumbly/irregular, and the snowy areas were quite lumpy. But the park’s sandy swimming beach area was free of snow/ice, so I used the wheels. Yep, she acted just like an Alaskan STOL Bush Plane, landing and leaving sandy gravel beds along a shallow stream at full power in no time. I sure hope that the local / regional RC clubs reopen their RC fields soon. Again, my thanks to you and the team at RF for making this a very enjoyable experience.
 
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